Tesla Opening Up Supercharger Network - A BAD Idea

[johnb80]

Unmanned charging stations cannot have any kind of "ban" for practical reasons.

Whilst I agree to a point, Tesla had banned all except Tesla cars until they started to open up the network so it is possible. There are extensions to the charging protocol that allow for the Tesla style plug and charge without cards or apps being involved so it could be easily implemented there, finally a camera looking at the charging area locking a charger off for anyone blocking two bays could also resolve the issue. An alloy smashing concrete kerb forcing alignment in the charging bay is another solution.

Ive always thought front centrally sited charging ports were the best idea (like the MG5, it makes accessing the bay easier, only needs a short lead etc and of course would work well with the Tesla chargers.

You'd have to do it in software by recognising the car and knowing its type, but where do you get that data from? I suppose in theory you could have ANPR cameras to control entry but that would expensive re-engineering at every site.

but what is the cost when 2 superchargers get tied up and some Tesla owners get seriously pissed off?

Either Tesla need to lengthen the cables, upgrade to V4 or provide extension cables for non Tesla EVs.

I dont see why Tesla should have to provide extension leads, that should be down to the users wanting to use the Tesla network.

 

[Coulomb]

Either Tesla need to lengthen the cables, upgrade to V4 or provide extension cables for non Tesla EVs.

Extension cables at the up to 250 kW level are extremely problematic. So much so that type 2 designs the cables such that it can't be done, at least with commonly available parts.

V4 cables are already longer. Extending V3 cables might be awkward; they seem to be designed to tuck neatly into the space inside the arch; I don't see how they could easily extend them and maintain any sort of dignity. Or redesign the whole frame, but that seems very expensive.

They could maybe shuffle some V3 units to be part of new installations (to be used only when very busy perhaps). Then some of the new V4 production that would have gone to those new sites can be diverted to older sites that are marked for non-Tesla use. Still expensive, but perhaps worth it to chase those Inflation Reduction Act dollars.

Temporarily, they could perhaps restrict say a 10 bay site to only 2 non-Tesla vehicles. That way, there are still some bays available for the Tesla customers that have paid for supercharger availability as part of their vehicle purchase price. It's far from ideal of course, since it might be turning away non-Tesla customers that happen to have favourable charge port locations and there are actually bays available. Maybe Tesla can have cameras there that are connected to an AI that dynamically allows or disallows non-Tesla customers based on how many bays are actually available.

 

[Rolfe]

If your charging port is in the nose of the car and you have a head-on collision, what then?

 

[Roldorf]

Tesla can and does restrict most of its charging stations to Tesla only. The charging post interrogates the car when you connect the charging cable and can tell if it is a Tesla, the Vinnumber, the model etc and transfers this information to its servers, that's how they bill their customers and stop you charging your non-Tesla.

 

[tsedge]

I dont see why Tesla should have to provide extension leads, that should be down to the users wanting to use the Tesla network.

Tesla have designed a charging solution that caused this issue - all the others provide long cables. So now the network is opening up, it is encumbent on Tesla to provide some kind of fix.

I don't see how they can easily differentiate between non-Teslas when they are plugged in, they won't have the data on what kind of car it is / whether it is suitable.

Hardware solutions will be costly to rollout whatever they are, I agree that bay kerbs might help although they'd need to be high to properly deter 4x4s. A camera could allow policing but typically this is not a cheap solution with the monitoring, signage and infrastructure to fine people.

If extension leads were practical (perhaps with limited max charge rate) they could perhaps be fitted to the side of each charger. It affects the clean aesthetic but then most solutions probably will.

 

[johnb80]

If your charging port is in the nose of the car and you have a head-on collision, what then?

Not sure what the relevance is or what youre asking here..... If you have a head on collision your car, including the charging port will be damaged.

Tesla have designed a charging solution that caused this issue - all the others provide long cables. So now the network is opening up, it is encumbent on Tesla to provide some kind of fix.

Or, the other manufacturers have caused the problem by not placing the charging port at the back left hand side?

I don't see how they can easily differentiate between non-Teslas when they are plugged in, they won't have the data on what kind of car it is / whether it is suitable.

ISO 15118’s Plug & Charge feature also enables the EV to automatically identify itself to the charging station and get authorised access to the energy it needs to recharge its battery. This is all based on the digital certificates and public-key infrastructures made available through the Plug & Charge feature. The best part? The driver doesn’t need to do anything beyond plug the charging cable into the vehicle and the charging station (during wired charging) or park above a ground pad (during wireless charging). The act of entering a credit card, opening an app to scan a QR code, or finding that easy-to-lose RFID card is a thing of the past with this technology.
This is what Tesla and many other manufacturers have implemented.

Hardware solutions will be costly to rollout whatever they are, I agree that bay kerbs might help although they'd need to be high to properly deter 4x4s. A camera could allow policing but typically this is not a cheap solution with the monitoring, signage and infrastructure to fine people.

Agreed

If extension leads were practical (perhaps with limited max charge rate) they could perhaps be fitted to the side of each charger. It affects the clean aesthetic but then most solutions probably will.

Which brings us back to why break the superb Tesla system, it's efficient operation, tidy appearance just to allow some cheapskates spoil it for the Tesla owners? (I'm not a Tesla owner BTW)

 

[kiwi]

I want to re-iterate how well the MG4 fits into the Tesla infrastructure and how seamless Tesla had made even casual (non subscription) charging. Here’s the mechanics from my Tesla charging in NZ thread:

There is no fob. You just set the app up with your credit card. At the charger there is no display and no fob or card reader.

To use the charger you just plug in, enter the post number (1A, 2B, etc) and press “Start Charging”.

FYI, here’s the app screen:

 

[tsedge]

I want to re-iterate how well the MG4 fits into the Tesla infrastructure and how seamless Tesla had made even casual (non subscription) charging. Here’s the mechanics from my Tesla charging in NZ thread:

View attachment 25024

There is no fob. You just set the app up with your credit card. At the charger there is no display and no fob or card reader.

To use the charger you just plug in, enter the post number (1A, 2B, etc) and press “Start Charging”.

FYI, here’s the app screen:

View attachment 25025

Yep, it is the exact same in the UK.

Or, the other manufacturers have caused the problem by not placing the charging port at the back left hand side?

That's stretching things too far. Tesla did not have the first EVs nor the first chargers. Why do they get to define where charge ports go?

ISO 15118’s Plug & Charge feature also enables the EV to automatically identify itself to the charging station and get authorised access to the energy it needs to recharge its battery. This is all based on the digital certificates and public-key infrastructures made available through the Plug & Charge feature. The best part? The driver doesn’t need to do anything beyond plug the charging cable into the vehicle and the charging station (during wired charging) or park above a ground pad (during wireless charging). The act of entering a credit card, opening an app to scan a QR code, or finding that easy-to-lose RFID card is a thing of the past with this technology.
This is what Tesla and many other manufacturers have implemented.

Yes, but not everyone is using it and there's a substantial pool of cars that don't support it, so you'd still need another solution to stop bay blocking. I am not against this tech - it is clearly better - but there's a long transition period. Older EVs could be in use for decades.

Which brings us back to why break the superb Tesla system, it's efficient operation, tidy appearance just to allow some cheapskates spoil it for the Tesla owners? (I'm not a Tesla owner BTW)

It isn't breaking it, it is improving it. I get your point but Tesla with their own V4 chargers have come up with the best solution, if they want elegance they need to rapidly replace all the older V2 and V3 installations.

 

[ARealHuman]

I'm a Tesla convert. Had my M3 for 5 or 6 months now and love it. The charging network is awesome. Where I usually charge on my 200 mile each way commute at either end of the week, I've never seen a non-Tesla there, although twice in that time is has been full with Teslas and I've had to wait about 10 minutes for a spot. I also use a Shell Recharge point near my work, it's fast but really expensive.

I'd be hacked off if another EV blocked more than one bay to charge, might even block them in if I could.

 

[Lovemyev]

I fully understand that when buying into the Tesla brand, many owners (and rightfully so) thought that they had exclusive rights to the Tesla charging network.
This would have been a major factor in their decision to choose the Tesla brand.
I guess the first sign that things were starting to shift, was when Tesla decided to remove the free supercharging to new owners, a few years back.
Unfortunately when Tesla decided to join the race for providing limited units to non Tesla owners, then at this point here, the exclusive charging club had been broken.
I fully understand that Tesla owners feel a little cheated by this and arriving at a charger that is blocked by a non Tesla model can be frustrating, but that owner is now a (higher) paying customer of the service than the Tesla owner.
It would be the same at any charger, you have to be prepared to wait unfortunately.
Remember, it’s Tesla that did this!

 

[johnb80]

I fully understand that Tesla owners feel a little cheated by this and arriving at a charger that is blocked by a non Tesla model can be frustrating, but that owner is now a ( higher ) paying customer of the service than the Tesla owner.

It's not the fact they're using a charger that is my complaint, it's the fact they block off two chargers that I find unacceptable. A bit like an ICE car parking in a charging bay, doesnt achieve anything other than blocking an EV.

 

[Gadget Geek]

It's not the fact theyre using a charger that is my complaint, it's the fact they block off two chargers that I find unacceptable. A bit like an ICE car parking in a charging bay, doesnt achieve anything other than blocking an EV.

I think that if Tesla are going to open chargers to other EV's, then they should mske sure they are fit for purpose by having longer charging leads.

 

[Mitch AC DC]

I have always thought it was a great idea to open up the Tesla network to everyone, why not? I'll tell you why........

I'm currently working on a contract for the next few months, it involves driving a survey equipped vehicle around 8 major cities in the UK. The vehicle is a Tesla Model Y and of course I have to charge it. The charging works absolutely fine with no complaints until yesterday in Romford. There are about 10 superchargers but this location they are open to all. 4 non tesla cars were charging which occupied all 10 charging bays. The supercharger leads are short (around 2 metres) and if your charging port isn't on the nearside rear or offside front the only way you can use the supercharger is by block the next bay thus preventing a Tesla charging. The vehicles concerned yesterday were not charging at 250 kW either so they tied the whole system up for a considerable time.
The only solution I can see is either longer leads or close the network down to Tesla only.

Operating the Tesla for the last few weeks has been an eyeopener and is a completely different experience to all other EV's I have driven / owned. The superchargers are normally plentiful and very, very quick, 20 minutes giving a useful boost to the range and at less than 50p/kWh is very competitive compared to the rest of the market. I'm pretty sure my next car will be a Tesla of one flavour or another.

Find it difficult to imagine that a 2meter cable can`t be able to reach any cars charging port position [other than middle of car???] providing relevant right or left bay available.
Personally I get a bit peeved when Teslas use up non tesla chargers, unreasonable [jealousy] I know

 

[5teep]

I think that if Tesla are going to open chargers to other EV's, then they should mske sure they are fit for purpose by having longer charging leads.

I said way back that if Tesla opened to all cars they would be snowed under with damaged cables. Hundreds of Joe Bloggses pulling for all they are worth trying to get the short cable to reach.

 

[ARealHuman]

A first at my usual spot referenced in my post above, I popped in to charge on the way home, it was completely empty. On approach I thought the entire site mustn't be working, but it was and I had it all to myself for about 20 minutes. Which was nice ;-)

 

[johnb80]

A first at my usual spot referenced in my post above, I popped in to charge on the way home, it was completely empty. On approach I thought the entire site mustn't be working, but it was and I had it all to myself for about 20 minutes. Which was nice ;-)

One thing I have found with Tesla setup is even if all of the chargers are in use, you dont have to wait long for one to become vacant due to the relatively high charge rates. The short leads are ideal, neat and tidy for Tesla vehicles.