V2L - vehicle to load adapter / cable

[Obsidien]

Yes, i already have such a socket tester.
Did someone use it directly at a V2L socket to check ?

 

[Obsidien]

Hello, some ultra quick test today on my ZS mk2 with a socket tester : it appears there is an RCD inside vehicle onduler, 'coz current generation stopped as soon as I pressed 'rcd test' button on my tester.
So, for V2G usage (home grid backup), just use directly swap L+N+E off your installation to V2L adapter, and person's security should be assured.

If someone can do test to confirm, it could be well !

Nota : socket tester used is like this one : Socket Tester on Amazon

(just received from Aliexpress, tested ok on known state house sockets)

 

[adamback]

Hello, some ultra quick test today on my ZS mk2 with a socket tester : it appears there is an RCD inside vehicle onduler, 'coz current generation stopped as soon as I pressed 'rcd test' button on my tester.
So, for V2G usage (home grid backup), just use directly swap L+N+E off your installation to V2L adapter, and person's security should be assured.

If someone can do test to confirm, it could be well !

Nota : socket tester used is like this one : Socket Tester on Amazon

(just received from Aliexpress, tested ok on known state house sockets)

Great! Thank you for that update. I hope I can do a load test on all phases simultaneously (not 3phase). Have been busy.

 

[Stefanseiner]

I ordered new parts to build my V2L adapter with 3-phases. Cable and schuko-socket are already there, but I am waiting for the typ2 female plug to start the build.

Oh, and our MG ZS EV too...
should be delivered in 4 weeks or so, I guess I will ask the seller again if there are some news when the car will be there

short feedback:
MG ZS EV LR (= 11kW 3phase onboard charger) arrived well and wife is happy with it


In the meantime I am doing some tests with V2L and made a few videos. It's in German but with subtitels

1. building single Phase V2L adapter


2. tests I want to do as I have time to do them


3. charging another EV via V2L?


4. in the garage we have an single phase 32A carging station and connected to the ZS EV with 3-phase 11kW onboard loader it will charge with 30A = 6,6kW.
Was the same with an MG 4 LR with 11kW charger which I could teste drive a few weeks ago (MG4 video on YT too)


Tests I already did but without video (will comig soon)
5. because the 11kW charger can charge with 6,6kW on phase 1, I tested how much the V2L load can handle and I pushed it to a stable 6kW load. I think it can handle 6,6kW max but I did not have more resistive loads avaiable

6. charging my battery bank in the garage from the ZS EV via V2L experiment worked well

7. feeding into the house grid via V2L (parallel, not as island / emergency power supply) worked well too


But now I am struggeling at my newest experiment. I am trying to build a three phase V2L adapter but the voltages aren't as aspected

I connected all cables to a 3phase CEE connector. I have 230v on all three lives, but no 400 V.
View attachment 8329

I have these voltages:
L1 -> N = 220V
L2 -> N = 0V
L3 -> N = 0V
L1 -> L2 = 220V
L2 -> L3 = 220V

So can anybody tell me how this can be?

 

[Roldorf]

Measure the voltage across any two phases.

 

[Coulomb]

L2 -> N = 0V
L3 -> N = 0V
L2 -> L3 = 220V

So can anybody tell me how this can be?

As far as I know, that's not possible. Could there be a measurement error?

Maybe there is inductive coupling involved. But it still makes no sense. It all makes sense (single phase output) except the last measurement. It should be 0V L2 to L3.

Edit: Oh, wait. Some of it could work out. L2 and L3 could be an output that is floating with respect to neutral. But then L1 to L2 or L1 to L3 should be zero.

Plus, an inverter really can't generate an output that is floating, unless a transformer is involved. That seems unlikely, even a high frequency transformer.

 

[Coulomb]

My guess is that they use 2 half-bridges to generate single phase alternating voltage. To generate 3-phase output is easy with three half-bridges, but then you don't have a neutral. I think you'd need a fourth half-bridge to generate the neutral. Since 99% of V2L applications would be single phase, it doesn't seem worth the extra expense to generate two more phases that will likely rarely be used.

If I'm right, that means that you will never be able to get 3-phase from the V2L port.

But I'm really rusty with power conversion topologies, so I could be way off.

 

[Obsidien]

Hello,

Stefan results are stunning :

I have these voltages:
L1 -> N = 220V
L2 -> N = 0V
L3 -> N = 0V
L1 -> L2 = 220V
L2 -> L3 = 220V

On page 8 of this thread, some months ago, Adamback user measures 220V to neutral with every phase (L1, then L2, then L3). Phased were not 120° phased out like 3-phased grid supply, but all phases give 220V, as he said.

L1-L3 all give 220V, but not 3Phase 400V.

So... can there be différent V2L hardwares on our EV ?

Stephen's EV : (germany)

MG ZS EV LR (= 11kW 3phase onboard charger)

As AdamBack. (sweden)


If I can conclude : don't assume/try to use 3 phases on V2L output.

In fact, imho, the only game to try is to maximize power output to determinate max output power of V2L (i bet 6kW).

 

[Stefanseiner]

I've done some more tests today, maybe this helps?

 

[Julian256]

Hey Stefan

In a previous post, you said:

7. feeding into the house grid via V2L (parallel, not as island / emergency power supply) worked well too

Do you mean that you connected the V2L output from the car to your house, in parallel with grid mains?
Since these AC sources are not phase synchronised, I would expect this to damage the inverter in your car.
I'm curious to know if this is what you meant.

 

[Stefanseiner]

no I did not connect the V2L output directly to the house mains.
I used a photovoltaic grid tie inverter to feed into the house mains and an adjustable DC power supply to convert the V2L output to a matching voltage input for the grid inverter

the grid inverter is manually adjustable too to cover the household's base load. Could alternatively be with limiter sensors for dynamic load regulation but would need some more installation effords

Does someone has an idea about my three phase problem?

 

[Julian256]

OK, that makes sense

 

[adamback]

I've done some more tests today, maybe this helps?

Sorry, I can not help you.
I have double checked my readings.
My type2 connector and cabel was all together and I only changed the resistor.
The cabel color was also according swedish standard.
L1 brown
L2 black
L3 grey
N blue
Ground gren/yellow

I think that all MG deliver 1phase V2L. And that same phase is connected to all three L.

The great thing is that it is not limited 2500w,
But more… I was att 4300w when I run out of portable radiators. Maybe 5kw? Maybe 6,6kw

 

[John11000]

When using the V2L for an extended period, does the 12V battery discharge significantly or is there a way to avoid this?

 

[Julian256]

When using the V2L for an extended period, does the 12V battery discharge significantly or is there a way to avoid this?

Yes, apparently the 12V battery starts to discharge after a couple of hours of V2L. Using the app to check the vehicle status appears to get the 12V battery charging again - so do this every couple of hours.

EDIT: Using the app seems to tell the car that the 12V battery is low and can actually stop the V2L function. There is a workaround - use the app to start a 10-minute AC blowing (or A/C or Front Window) session and that gives the 12V battery a charge boost (and possibly resets the V2L charging of the 12V battery). Not ideal because the A/C session drains the HV battery for no good reason. I've bought a BM2 battery monitor from Amazon to better monitor what's going on with the 12V battery.

 

[John11000]

Yes, apparently the 12V battery starts to discharge after a couple of hours of V2L. Using the app to check the vehicle status appears to get the 12V battery charging again - so do this every couple of hours.

Yes, apparently the 12V battery starts to discharge after a couple of hours of V2L. Using the app to check the vehicle status appears to get the 12V battery charging again - so do this every couple of hours.

I thought I might use a battery charger when using V2L.

 

[N2STY]

I thought I might use a battery charger when using V2L.

This will only work if amps going in is grater than going out

 

[Coulomb]

This will only work if amps going in is grater than going out

True, but even if there is a small deficit (net auxiliary battery drain), it should extend the run time quite significantly. Probably plenty to keep running all night, for example.

 

[Lovemyev]

When using the V2L for an extended period, does the 12V battery discharge significantly or is there a way to avoid this?

There has recently been a software update released on the ZS EV Gen 2 that will allow the V2L cable to provide energy with the car unlocked, like the MG4.
I assume when this update has been applied, it will still allow the 12 volt battery to receive a charge from the traction battery ?.
As usually this only takes place, when the car is in READY mode or on charge ?.
Without this, the 12 volt battery will soon become flat ?.

 

[simonyonda]

I've done some more tests today, maybe this helps?

Hi Stefan, You've probably worked this out already but I think you have Neutral and AC phase 1 swapped on the CCS connector. See https://thedriven.io/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/CCS2-vs-type2.jpg.