Someone is on a 'normal' standard tariff, why would they buy an MG4 in this example?

[Harry 17]

Yes, I feel the odd 'hear he is' atmosphere when I go in. I mean, after all, you have a guy (me) who paid thousand of pounds for a car and wants it looked after by the place I'm about to pay £250-£300 for a service to. In my book, that isn't 'that hard' for them to do.

Agreed

 

[Harry 17]

Yes, I feel the odd 'hear he is' atmosphere when I go in. I mean, after all, you have a guy (me) who paid thousand of pounds for a car and wants it looked after by the place I'm about to pay £250-£300 for a service to. In my book, that isn't 'that hard' for them to do.

To add to my previous rapid reply…… I am a guy who agrees with your sentiment. We had to move home cause I wanted a garage to take my Z3 out of the elements .

I had a half shell cover, which scrubbed the paintwork when the wind got up……so decided that we needed a garage and could not build one at our previous gaff.
so new house was done, Zed garaged (job done) and since, I have
loved cleaning and polishing the mini bat-mobile…..I did not like a little bit of rust on the sills, so she is going in for a full re spray in November. I pay more attention to the Zed, than my more expensive “day car”. But that is my hobby, I would not let anyone touch her with bristle brushes or promises of a full valet.
sorry All, went well off topic here, but at least you get a snapshot of some of my idiosyncrasies

 

[4ND]

To add to my previous rapid reply…… I am a guy who agrees with your sentiment. We had to move home cause I wanted a garage to take my Z3 out of the elements .

I had a half shell cover, which scrubbed the paintwork when the wind got up……so decided that we needed a garage and could not build one at our previous gaff.
so new house was done, Zed garaged (job done) and since, I have
loved cleaning and polishing the mini bat-mobile…..I did not like a little bit of rust on the sills, so she is going in for a full re spray in November. I pay more attention to the Zed, than my more expensive “day car”. But that is my hobby, I would not let anyone touch her with bristle brushes or promises of a full valet.
sorry All, went well off topic here, but at least you get a snapshot of some of my idiosyncrasies

lol, that garage story is something I'd do. I'm in the same boat as you were. My ND lives outside with a half cover. Thing is, as paranoid and picky as I am with swirls etc, in 4 or so years there's nothing on there in the contact areas (car's a light colour though, so that helps). I use Mazda's dedicated half cover, I'm on my 4th one now, as they get less effective with time/elements. If I say so myself my soft top looks like new, so kudos to that cover. Of course I remove it and let air get under it etc on dry days, and of course when I drive it as i never drive with the top up.
I'll leave the side topic there as like you said it's off topic and cheeses people off sometimes (understandably) when threads go like that.

 

[Harry 17]

So, back on topic….I think that the costs of owning an EV are deffinatley getting close to parity with an ICE vehicle.

so, I guess the question is…..would I choose to take up an ICE over an EV.

for me, No

the pleasure of day today driving of the MG4 is a revelation !

the car is fantastic to drive, super smooth and super fast. I never have any hesitation in joining or overtaking, when in the 4, beit on a motorway or dual carriageway.
the car is a little slower than my ICE Z3(2.8- nutter bassa fast).

the oil issue is indeed that, an issue, but so far for me, not a problem, I am confident it will get sorted.
yes I did pay £850 for the installation of. Zappi charger, and yes I am in for a whopping £11K For a solar PV and battery installation (April next year).

I am confident that even without the uplift of the EV, together with the uplift of charging the car, this will pay for itself within 6 years.

speaking of charging costs. ……so far done 1250 miles…….

home charging costs is circa £80.00

car came with 100% charge

spent £18 for bonnet app = 40 KWh - used 32 Kwh

had a few miles free from Tescos ( realise this free charging is coming to an end).

so so far, whilst things will tot up soon,….. done 1250 miles for
circa £110 quid.
would I choose an ICE-over the MG4? Not on your Nelly!

 

[4ND]

the pleasure of day today driving of the MG4 is a revelation !

the car is fantastic to drive, super smooth and super fast. I never have any hesitation in joining or overtaking, when in the 4, beit on a motorway or dual carriageway.
the car is a little slower than my ICE Z3(2.8- nutter bassa fast).

This is, imo, the main reason for purchase. One can talk about mpg, size, practicality, polar bears, but if one likes driving, this is the thing which often usurps much of everything else. Be it an owner in an electric car, or in a 15mpg petrol car.

 

[4ND]

Can you have an electric car if you despise smart phones and don't want one (P.S I'm not old)?

I also read somewhere that all home chargers now have to be 'smart' chargers or something? What is the difference with this and chargers someone might have had installed 2 years ago for eg? I ask as I've read a lot of grumbling about it and i don't know why?

 

[Paulie68]

lol no. I am a bit manic with looking after cars though. They are my hobby and I like to look after things I've saved up for years for and shelled out £thousands of pounds for. You should see what I'm like at a dealer on service day: no wash, asking for certain techs to work on it etc etc. I tell them I'm not a PCP guy (not knocking people who do that), I buy and own the car, and I don't pay 20-25-30 thousand of my own money to have to it damaged, and 99% of people might not care, and it isn't that hard to make an effort for the 1% who do. Ditto for tyre fitting day (a nightmare).
You'll like this one: I popped out earlier to give the ND MX-5 a spin as it was bone dry and I hadn't given it a spin for a few weeks. Mission was a few odds and sods. Got to the ASDA (only one I'll go to with a monster sized car park) about 9 miles away, it starts raining, so I turn around and try to 'beat' the rain on the way back. Misses goes nuts when I arrive home with no shopping, and can't see why the MX-5 'getting wet' or driving on a wet road is a problem. So I grab the NISMO RS and go in that instead

You'll like this, my tyre fitting day...

It's hard work and a horror for me!

I personally remove the wheels, take out the centre caps, remove the existing balance weights & clean off adhesive residue. The wheels are then deep cleaned inside and out. They then get taken to the tyre fitter in another car. I point out the condition to the manager and ask them to assure me they can fit the tyres causing no damage to the rims at all. Once confirmed, I mention that of course I realise it's very unlikely, but in the event any damage does occur, I won't "let it go" and would expect it to be paid for by them. (This has to be done carefully and with a little joviality as they can be upset easily!)

Doing the above limits my risk as the centre manager will usually do it themselves, or put one of the good staff on the job. There is also no chance of car mis-jacking. No risk of damage to centre caps, no risk of damage around the nut/bolting area from careless socket knocks, and no risk of gauging the wheel barrels when prising off existing weights.

It's a real pain in the arse, but my wheels and car stay perfect as a result.

Wife says I am extremely odd, and she's most likely correct

 

[4ND]

You'll like this, my tyre fitting day...

It's hard work and a horror for me!

I personally remove the wheels, take out the centre caps, remove the existing balance weights & clean off adhesive residue. The wheels are then deep cleaned inside and out. They then get taken to the tyre fitter in another car. I point out the condition to the manager and ask them to assure me they can fit the tyres causing no damage to the rims at all. Once confirmed, I mention that of course I realise it's very unlikely, but in the event any damage does occur, I won't "let it go" and would expect it to be paid for by them. (This has to be done carefully and with a little joviality as they can be upset easily!)

Doing the above limits my risk as the centre manager will usually do it themselves, or put one of the good staff on the job. There is also no chance of car mis-jacking. No risk of damage to centre caps, no risk of damage around the nut/bolting area from careless socket knocks, and no risk of gauging the wheel barrels when prising off existing weights.

It's a real pain in the arse, but my wheels and car stay perfect as a result.

Wife says I am extremely odd, and she's most likely correct

No, full marks. Very exhaustive.
I'm good with car specs etc, but have zero DIY skills, so can't take wheels off.
However, I'm worked up and stressed before hand to the hilt. I ask/visit places before hand (I've lost my last place due to what I'll say below), trying to come across like I'm obsessed with my car (which I am). I ask them only to remove carefully the just balancing weight, not the underlying sticky stuff, hence so not 'getting into it' gauging them off, as i tell them I can get the old residue gum off myself with tar remover (I had one place in the past massacre one, horrendous gouges! They got me a brand new alloy)
Anyway, I visit before hand with my car looking showroom, so they can see I'm serious, and not just talking of a hypothetical look after car that isn't there. I also offer them MORE MONEY in labor if they will concentrate just on me, not anyone behind, and ask when the quietest time is.

Last time: My pristine NISMO RS wheels had the fronts changed. Spotted immediately a small ding thing on the edge. Went mad. Owner said next time I'll look at them before hand, to which I said 'why didn't you, I paid you labor'. Claimed it was on there before, but I said you know me and I am genuine and you know how I look after the wheels (car). Owner 'found' other jobs to do, but miraculously appeared with the fitter watching and talking as I drove off, p-ed off.
Worse, a week or so later I started getting an intermittent tmps light coming on..then off. It would happen 1-2X a week. Type pressures fine. There was also a scrape sound, but I thought this was something else. Anyway, months later when having new disks and pads at the dealer by a fitter I like, I mentioned the scrape sound and he came back out and said 'have you had tyre change recently, as i think your sensor is moving about'? Bingo, I recalled during the fitting, the tyre fitter fishing inside the wheel for something and i said 'is everything okay'? and he looked guilty as sin. He then put the tmps sensor back on with a clip thing. In hindsight he'd probably hit it off/broke it when removing the tyre. The fitter at the dealer confirmed it and fair play showed me the beat up looking sensor which had been rolling inside, and 'stuck' it back on (fingers crossed, 5 months on fine)
So that PLUS, a mark on the rim described above.

Fair play to you with that tyre stuff you do. Sad too that you/we have to go to these lengths to (try to) stop someone damaging your property. Me and you would get on a dream mate.

 

[Malcolm Anderson]

1) I won't take pleasure in other drivers running out of fuel, just as I refuse to take pleasure in EV owners running out of charge. I try not to take pleasure in others' misfortune, whether self inflicted or not.
2) Regarding your second paragraph, and reference to 'posions' they (ICE owners) are releasing and, as you stated 'what they force on the people and environment around them'
In light of these remarks, can you please present on the forum your full ICE car ownership history please. From your first car to now. And can you also add an approximation of any sub 5 mile journeys you partook in any ICE cars that you may have owned, which of course sees 'poisons' (as you called them) at their worse, when they (the short journeys) may have been attainable via foot/cycle or public transport.
In addition, can you present to the forum your (if any) full lifetime foreign holiday destination/amounts via plane please. If you ever have, of course. Given, of course, the 'posions' emitted per journey.
In this way we can analyses the heightened words such as 'posions' 'force on people' 'climate anomalies' in context of your own use.

Thank you.

My 1st car was an Austin A35, 948cc and it was 10yrs old in 1974, I wanted a Tesla but they hadn't been invented yet, LOL. Poisons? Have you tried the garage test yet? Give it a go, then repost me.

 

[4ND]

My 1st car was an Austin A35, 948cc and it was 10yrs old in 1974, I wanted a Tesla but they hadn't been invented yet, LOL. Poisons? Have you tried the garage test yet? Give it a go, then repost me.

We note not answering the question poised.
Full 1974 to present day car ownership please, plus foreign holiday location list (if any), plus an estimate of the number of sub 5 miles journeys undertake in the 'poisonous' cars.

Thanks.

 

[Susanna]

@4ND

Without wishing to sound argumentative, it seems pointless to ask people about their vehicle journeys prior to having the opportunity to buy an electric car, particularly the ‘dig’ about short journeys. Maybe you have not been in the position of having to ferry children to schools, in different directions, prior to getting yourself to work in an area not well served by public transport? Then taking an elderly relative to various GP/hospital appointments on a regular basis, and of course food shopping for one’s own household and another. If I could have undertaken all that by bicycle, I would have been hailed as superwoman!

Now that EV ownership is a possibility, if as many people who can afford to, do so, shouldn’t that be celebrated? Pollution will be reduced, which is good for the environment and the health of everyone.

It’s not always about comparing costs. Freedom of choice and personal responsibility are often the deciding factors.

 

[Ian Key]

People who buy and use second hand ICE cars are more environmentally friendly than someone who frequently changes their EV once you take the manufacturing into account.

 

[4ND]

@4ND

Without wishing to sound argumentative, it seems pointless to ask people about their vehicle journeys prior to having the opportunity to buy an electric car, particularly the ‘dig’ about short journeys. Maybe you have not been in the position of having to ferry children to schools, in different directions, prior to getting yourself to work in an area not well served by public transport? Then taking an elderly relative to various GP/hospital appointments on a regular basis, and of course food shopping for one’s own household and another. If I could have undertaken all that by bicycle, I would have been hailed as superwoman!

Now that EV ownership is a possibility, if as many people who can afford to, do so, shouldn’t that be celebrated? Pollution will be reduced, which is good for the environment and the health of everyone.

It’s not always about comparing costs. Freedom of choice and personal responsibility are often the deciding factors.

I guess the Leaf has been around for a solid 11 years (?) and the likes of the Zoe soon after, so whilst not the first electric car(s), one could then maybe argue no one can preach from the green tree from that point on?
Maybe even more so if someone also has a petrol/diesel car still, and chooses to take planes to go on foreign holidays?

Of course the argument for how 'clean' electric cars really are must be put into context of their overall emissions from their construction to end, and they make much more co2 in construction and the discarding battery issues, and pound of pound, whilst having zero emissions 'at the pipe', in terms of its lifecycle, they take more than a half of the co2 that petrols emit, hence they aren't the green elixir some might claim. Granted, that's a whole other issue.

Regarding the alleged 'dig' at short journeys. The remark wasn't necessarily directed at the sort of scenarios which you describe, but unnecessary short journeys which easily could have been undertaken on foot/pubic transport/ or bike.

Personally I agree with your freedom of choice comment; I LOVE petrol cars, and polar bears have ZERO influence on any decision I make to/if purchase an electric car- it'd be because I like them, nothing else.
But if I do, I'll never preach from the zealot tree to others regarding things I've done/do myself.

 

[Paulie68]

People who buy and use second hand ICE cars are more environmentally friendly than someone who frequently changes their EV once you take the manufacturing into account.

That may be partially true, and I agree that people in general shouldn't be changing their cars so often, but those used EV's aren't taken away and crushed at the point of car change, they go on to have a long service life with subsequent owners, just as ICE cars do now, so it's not a valid argument.

The valid argument is people should be keeping cars longer term and far less cars should be made, full stop!

Then we can go on to argue about who is much cleaner overall EV or ICE cars, over the full life cycle, from part sourcing, build, use, recycling, including all pollution caused by fuel type use from creation to use/burning.

Do some research and you'll discover EV is demonstrably better.

 

[Deleted member 9692]

You'll like this, my tyre fitting day...

Ahhh, but do you take your own painted balance weights?

 

[Gomev]

whilst having zero emissions 'at the pipe', in terms of its lifecycle, they take more than a half of the co2 that petrols emit, hence they aren't the green elixir some might claim. Granted, that's a whole other issue.

...

Indeed EVs are not a golden elixir but are a mightier green than ICE. The CO2 that ICE emit isn't just from the tailpipe of that vehicle. It is from the drilling, shipping, refining and transport of the oil and petrol to the pump as well. These processes also include the vast consumption of the same electricity which goes directly into an EV for use.

 

[Paulie68]

I guess the Leaf has been around for a solid 11 years (?) and the likes of the Zoe soon after, so whilst not the first electric car(s), one could then maybe argue no one can preach from the green tree from that point on?
Maybe even more so if someone also has a petrol/diesel car still, and chooses to take planes to go on foreign holidays?

Of course the argument for how 'clean' electric cars really are must be put into context of their overall emissions from their construction to end, and they make much more co2 in construction and the discarding battery issues, and pound of pound, whilst having zero emissions 'at the pipe', in terms of its lifecycle, they take more than a half of the co2 that petrols emit, hence they aren't the green elixir some might claim. Granted, that's a whole other issue.

Regarding the alleged 'dig' at short journeys. The remark wasn't necessarily directed at the sort of scenarios which you describe, but unnecessary short journeys which easily could have been undertaken on foot/pubic transport/ or bike.

Personally I agree with your freedom of choice comment; I LOVE petrol cars, and polar bears have ZERO influence on any decision I make to/if purchase an electric car- it'd be because I like them, nothing else.
But if I do, I'll never preach from the zealot tree to others regarding things I've done/do myself.

I used to love petrol cars, and to a degree, still do. I still own a classic, early 50's VW. Lot's of my daily drivers used to be large V8/V6 engined cars that were just lovely to drive. But... I have an electrical engineering background and understand technology hands on. (I built my own EV 13 years ago, which I still have and tinker with now!) I just love the elegant simplicity and efficiency of an EV drive train, it's just better. The ICE engine is just so primitive, overcomplicated, high maintenance, & inefficient. I still love them, but like you love a steam engine, it's a cool piece of history that's time is coming to an end.

The lack of local pollution and far lower overall emissions is a happy secondary benefit.

The fact, in my own use case I can currently run a mighty Model S Tesla for £5 to drive over 300 miles (sadly increasing to £12 as of next year ) is a happy third benefit! For comparison, 300 miles in a comparable large V8 Petrol that, sort of, gets close in performance to my S currently costs £113 by local pump standards!

 

[4ND]

That may be partially true, and I agree that people in general shouldn't be changing their cars so often, but those used EV's aren't taken away and crushed at the point of car change, they go on to have a long service life with subsequent owners, just as ICE cars do now, so it's not a valid argument.

The valid argument is people should be keeping cars longer term and far less cars should be made, full stop!

Then we can go on to argue about who is much cleaner overall EV or ICE cars, over the full life cycle, from part sourcing, build, use, recycling, including all pollution caused by fuel type use from creation to use/burning.

Do some research and you'll discover EV is demonstrably better.

Better as in ~ 19 tonnes of CO2e per lifecycle for a BEV, compared to 24 for a 'standard' petrol car, 'better' as in ~ 80% as much?

Ricardo study finds electric and hybrid cars have a higher carbon footprint during production than conventional vehicles, but still offer a lower footprint over the full life cycle

Electric and hybrid cars generate more carbon emissions during their production than current conventional vehicles, but still have a lower carbon footprint overall, according to a new report prepared by Ricardo for, and in collaboration with, the expert membership of the UK’s Low Carbon Vehicle...

www.greencarcongress.com

 

[Malcolm Anderson]

We note not answering the question poised.
Full 1974 to present day car ownership please, plus foreign holiday location list (if any), plus an estimate of the number of sub 5 miles journeys undertake in the 'poisonous' cars.

Thanks.

When you have done the garage test repost me, remember close the doors and leave engine running.

 

[4ND]

When you have done the garage test repost me, remember close the doors and leave engine running.

Hi,
The forum will note you are still refusing to answer the question originally poised.