Blinded by the price!

[johnb80]

Warranty documents are an aside. Under uk law items must be fit for purpose, they can have one go at fixing, if not successful then you have a right for full refund or replacement, this is up to 6 years. You can require them to agree to independent arbitration prior to small claims court hearing. If they refuse then this is frowned on by the courts and they are likely to loose. Most will offer full refund or replacement at this stage, including Samsung who I also got a full refund for a Tv after 3 years

Absolutely correct.

7 years, But only on pin hole corrosion! Most everything else is 12months .

Not according to MG

and if they try and refuse on any item that it is reasonable to expect it to work for longer fault free, use the legal process, dont just sit back and have your tummy tickled.

@johnb80:

Sorry but you're wrong* (or the judge was misinformed). The legislation that applies in the UK is the Consumer Rights Act 2015. I suggest you read it and the associated Explanatory Notes.

It is entirely possible that both the judge and me were wrong..... or you might be wrong? Searching the confirms that 6 years (5 in Scotland) is the general accepted period that a TV should last.

However if the TV was offered with an extended warranty (e.g. John Lewis used to offer 5 year warranties; Richer Sounds 6 year warranties) then the terms of said warranty would apply - if you'd complied with them and the retailer hadn't then your assertion would be correct - but that's not the angle you stated.

Nope, I never buy extended warranties on item, theres no need, 6 years is plenty for my TV etc which I'm entitled to free of charge.

* other than regarding the Defendant - I'd assumed you'd bought direct from Samsung; of course if you bought from a retailer then they would be the Defendant.

Yes indeed and theres a straight forward legal procedure for the retailer to transfer the liability to their supplier. I've done this a couple of times in my business with full co-operation of the purchaser. We sort out the client, get them back up and running again and then go through the paperwork for us to get compensated.

 

[bowfer]

Back to being blinded by the price.
Some astonishing bargains out there in EV world that may make anyone think again.
Example, Audi dealers are doing new E-Trons for £40k instead of £63k.
Facelifted models too.

 

[Brettus]

I think MG kicking the bottom out of the EV market has forced others to adjust tack a little and stop gouging quite as much as they were. Like Teslas price drops though it’s gonna irk buyers that were charged the higher price.

It’s telling that few of them needed to release a new model to pass on savings.

 

[bowfer]

I think MG kicking the bottom out of the EV market has forced others to adjust tack a little and stop gouging quite as much as they were. Like Teslas price drops though it’s gonna irk buyers that were charged the higher price.

It’s telling that few of them needed to release a new model to pass on savings.

Yeah, but what do MG do when the competition fights back?
All of a sudden your budget doesn’t just get you the MG like it did a year ago, there’s choice.
Is there any sign of them ‘fighting the fightback’ and reducing their prices?

 

[CraigInnes]

Back to being blinded by the price.
Some astonishing bargains out there in EV world that may make anyone think again.
Example, Audi dealers are doing new E-Trons for £40k instead of £63k.
Facelifted models too.

Link to aforementioned bargain????

 

[bowfer]

Link to aforementioned bargain????

What’s with all the question marks?

Note this isn’t the only one, there’s facelifted ones too.

 

[Brettus]

Yeah, but what do MG do when the competition fights back?
All of a sudden your budget doesn’t just get you the MG like it did a year ago, there’s choice.
Is there any sign of them ‘fighting the fightback’ and reducing their prices?

quite agree, it’ll be interesting as I don’t imagine there’s a large margin in MGs calculations. But before they did this nobody was getting anything cheap. Now Volvo want to play in that price bracket with an OP model too. It wasn’t an option before but change is inevitable (except from vending machines)
Obviously it trends this way but this was another marked step down in cost. EVs are mainstream now. They’re only going to get more affordable and logical.

 

[CraigInnes]

What’s with all the question marks?

Note this isn’t the only one, there’s facelifted ones too.

View attachment 19908

APR of 10.7% on e-tron. Drop the price, bump up the apr!

 

[johnb80]

Interesting times ahead I'm sure

 

[YaR]

Bear in mind that traditional auto manufacturers will be trying to control the taper from ICE to EVs as they have a lot of legacy products still to shift and support prior to bans on new ICEs coming in so are presumably pricing their products to regulate demand.

 

[siteguru]

Edit: I typed the below before seeing further posts were here.

Sigh ... yet another misconception.

You DO NOT have up to 6 years (5 in Scotland) for a full refund or brand new replacement ... not at all. UK law does not allow for Betterment. Here's a quick summary of general consumer rights:

• Up to 30 days you have an Initial/Short Term Right To Reject. In this situation it is for the consumer to prove that non-conformance exists and was there at the time of delivery (unless the seller accepts the case). With this right you can reject for a full refund, with no deductions allowed.
• After that and up to 6 months any non-conformance is assumed to have existed at the time of sale, and it is for the seller to prove otherwise. Assuming the seller doesn't so-prove, they must provide a remedy - repair, replace or refund (in full*), their choice effectively. If they opt to repair then they get a single opportunity - if the goods still don't conform then the consumer has the Final Right To Reject (for a full* refund) or a Right to a Price Reduction - i.e. keep the goods and get a partial refund. * Vehicles are an exception - sellers are allowed to deduct from the refund to account for mileage added to the vehicle, but any such deduction should really be minimal, depending on time of ownership and number of miles added
• After 6 months then the burden of proof switches to the consumer (like for the Initial Right). Assuming the non-conformance is proven (or accepted) then the seller must provide a remedy as above, but in this case there is no right to a full refund - the seller can reduce the amount of refund to account for time of ownership, but up to 1 year they tend not to (except for vehicles - see * above). The longer the time since purchase/delivery, the greater the reduction. The Final Right (after a single repair attempt) still applies, but not for a full refund.
• 6 years (5 in Scotland) is the Statute of Limitations - this is the time within which a court claim can be brought for any alleged breach of contract. This does not confer any warranty or state that goods must last at least 6 (or 5) years

When it comes to court claims, companies tend to be pragmatic and give the consumer (mostly) what they want just to make them go away - that doesn't mean the consumer had a cast iron case, just that the seller opted to minimise costs by not defending. This applies equally to "noisy" consumers - be problematic and waste staff time ( = money ) then they'll often opt to take the easy path. Again this doesn't mean the consumer was right - just that they took the cheaper route; if they defended then a lot of cases would go the way of the seller.

Anyone who doesn't believe me - I've already posted links to legislation (i.e. The Law). If you want to continue on your misguided path then feel free.

Absolutely correct.


Not according to MG

View attachment 19902

and if they try and refuse on any item that it is reasonable to expect it to work for longer fault free, use the legal process, dont just sit back and have your tummy tickled.

You've conveniently (for you) omitted pages 2 to 6 ... these define limitations on the warranty. Anything not covered by said limitations is of course covered by the full 7 year warranty, but anything which has a limitation - if it fails outside the limited warranty period then you'd need to revert to consumer rights as you've said. (But see my previous post).

 

[CraigInnes]

The magic number for me is £355 per month through my salary sacrifice.
Includes insurance, servicing, tyres (if any are required).
Nothing comes close just now, but not ordering just yet.

 

[johnb80]

You've conveniently (for you) omitted pages 2 to 6 ... these define limitations on the warranty. Anything not covered by said limitations is of course covered by the full 7 year warranty, but anything which has a limitation - if it fails outside the limited warranty period then you'd need to revert to consumer rights as you've said. (But see my previous post).

That was my reply to DBedford who stated it was only body perforation that was 7 years. I'm fully aware of the following pages with some items reduced cover BUT if the satnav was to fail at 37 months, MG would be taken task to replace it.

Edit: I typed the below before seeing further posts were here.

Sigh ... yet another misconception.

Sigh another misinterpretation of your rights

You DO NOT have up to 6 years (5 in Scotland) for a full refund or brand new replacement ... not at all. UK law does not allow for Betterment. Here's a quick summary of general consumer rights:

• Up to 30 days you have an Initial/Short Term Right To Reject. In this situation it is for the consumer to prove that non-conformance exists and was there at the time of delivery (unless the seller accepts the case). With this right you can reject for a full refund, with no deductions allowed.
• After that and up to 6 months any non-conformance is assumed to have existed at the time of sale, and it is for the seller to prove otherwise. Assuming the seller doesn't so-prove, they must provide a remedy - repair, replace or refund (in full*), their choice effectively. If they opt to repair then they get a single opportunity - if the goods still don't conform then the consumer has the Final Right To Reject (for a full* refund) or a Right to a Price Reduction - i.e. keep the goods and get a partial refund. * Vehicles are an exception - sellers are allowed to deduct from the refund to account for mileage added to the vehicle, but any such deduction should really be minimal, depending on time of ownership and number of miles added
• After 6 months then the burden of proof switches to the consumer (like for the Initial Right). Assuming the non-conformance is proven (or accepted) then the seller must provide a remedy as above, but in this case there is no right to a full refund - the seller can reduce the amount of refund to account for time of ownership, but up to 1 year they tend not to (except for vehicles - see * above). The longer the time since purchase/delivery, the greater the reduction. The Final Right (after a single repair attempt) still applies, but not for a full refund.
• 6 years (5 in Scotland) is the Statute of Limitations - this is the time within which a court claim can be brought for any alleged breach of contract. This does not confer any warranty or state that goods must last at least 6 (or 5) years

Yep but you miss out the part of the goods must be of merchantable quality i.e. free of faults and defects. If a TV fails after 4 years and that make and model plus TV's in general are expected to operate for 6 years then the failure is reasonable to assume has occured due to faulty parts / workmanship. It is this aspect that is used to get the refund / replacement.

When it comes to court claims, companies tend to be pragmatic and give the consumer (mostly) what they want just to make them go away

Thats absolute tosh. On some of my court claims they have had solicitors acting on their behalf, in the case of my TV they did too.

- that doesn't mean the consumer had a cast iron case, just that the seller opted to minimise costs by not defending.

Nope

This applies equally to "noisy" consumers - be problematic and waste staff time ( = money ) then they'll often opt to take the easy path.

Not in my experience

Again this doesn't mean the consumer was right - just that they took the cheaper route; if they defended then a lot of cases would go the way of the seller.

Based on YOUR opinion, reality is very different

Anyone who doesn't believe me - I've already posted links to legislation (i.e. The Law). If you want to continue on your misguided path then feel free.

I'm sure everyone believes the legislation, your interpretation of how to apply it is very different to mine. May I ask have you ever used the legislation to make a claim for an item that is outside manufacturers warranty?

 

[siteguru]

I give up - you obviously know far more than me. (That's sarcasm BTW)

PS:

Yep but you miss out the part of the goods must be of merchantable quality i.e. free of faults and defects. If a TV fails after 4 years and that make and model plus TV's in general are expected to operate for 6 years then the failure is reasonable to assume has occured due to faulty parts / workmanship. It is this aspect that is used to get the refund / replacement.

You do understand what "non-conforming" means, yes?

 

[JimD]

Allow me to butt in here. Interpretation of the letter of the law is more complicated than some people are making out here.

The way it's done is to use case law, which means you allow courts to try real-life cases using the new law and their decisions establish precedents of how the law will be interpreted in future cases.

You or I are free to indulge in our layman's interpretation of what we think the words of the regulations mean, but that is irrelevant when you go to court. Case law rules.

 

[Robf]

Allow me to butt in here. Interpretation of the letter of the law is more complicated than some people are making out here.

The way it's done is to use case law, which means you allow courts to try real-life cases using the new law and their decisions establish precedents of how the law will be interpreted in future cases.

You or I are free to indulge in our layman's interpretation of what we think the words of the regulations mean, but that is irrelevant when you go to court. Case law rules.

There is nothing new about this law, nor its interpretation.
From CAB

Return faulty goods​

Find out if it’s easier to use your legal rights on faulty goods instead. It’s usually easier within the first 6 months. You have legal rights for up to 6 years (5 years in Scotland) if there’s a fault.
This advice applies to England

If something’s gone wrong with an item you’ve bought, you might be entitled to a refund, repair or replacement.
If you have a problem with a used car, you might have a legal right to a repair or your money back. You can find out what to do if you have:

• a problem with a used car in England and Wales
• a problem with a used car in Scotland

It doesn't matter whether you bought the item new or secondhand - you'll still have rights.
You’ll have legal rights if the item you bought is:

• broken or damaged ('not of satisfactory quality')
• unusable (‘not fit for purpose’)
• not what was advertised or doesn’t match the seller’s description

You won’t have any legal rights if either:

• it was damaged by wear and tear, an accident or misuse
• you knew about the fault before you bought the item

If there's nothing wrong with the item but you've changed your mind, you might be able to return it if you act quickly. Check your rights if you've just changed your mind about something you’ve bought.

 

[tsedge]

Well I don't know who is right here but it does seem that being persistent, standing up for yourself and using the available rights/routes to get redress can give good results.

For most people I expect it will depend whether they are willing to put the time in to do that well. Some will, some won't.

 

[siteguru]

I just wanted to add a cautionary note against the "I know my rights!" brigade ... most of the time they don't, but shouting gets them their way.

 

[JimD]

There is nothing new about this law, nor its interpretation.
From CAB

..................​

No, but it was new once, and that's when the precedents were set.

 

[ukslim]

The magic number for me is £355 per month through my salary sacrifice.
Includes insurance, servicing, tyres (if any are required).
Nothing comes close just now, but not ordering just yet.

That's almost exactly what I have. 3 year term (with early termination penalty) unless I leave my job, so I would imagine the tyres will need replacing at least once. I keep seeing second-hand bargains, and wonder about equity. But this lease means that deprecation, servicing costs, anything like that, are someone else's problem.

It makes it really easy to evaluate TCO too - monthly lease price, what my home charger app tells me I've spent, occasional public chargers, and that's it. (Oh, the upfront cost of the home charger)