Charging to 100 % on 7 kW home charger.

[mj224]

I fully charge my ZS every time, maybe once a week. You do need to balance the batteries, and the range is little enough without only partly charging the battery.

Battery degradation is really a very minor consideration. It will be several years before you notice much difference, by which time you will probably have sold the car on.

My first EV, a Citroen Zero was still getting 60% of the range after 10 years.............and sold well. Still good for the short runs, school and shops...

 

[Gomev]

Hi, just joined the MG community, and look forward to your experiences.
I bought a MG Phev two months ago, and have used the home charger supplied to charge to 100%, then run down to zero before recharging. The overnight charging suits me, but I see posts that say the battery should run between 30 and 80%. Am I doing damage to the battery?
The dealer said it was ok, but I'm not sure of their opinion.
Also, what does the small yellow triangle on the lhs of the driver screen mean? My dealer said it was due to the car being confused about the speed limit. Is that correct?

Hi, and welcome.
You might find more relevant information on the PHEV forum. Click on this link to see all the MG forums

MG Community Forum

The unofficial forum for enthusiasts to discuss MG electric vehicles and EV driving in general

www.mgevs.com

or go to it directly here MG HS Plug-in Hybrid Forum

 

[Hairyfool]

In answer to the 1st question generally it’s not ideal to take the battery to zero, aim to recharge by the time it gets to 10%. Taking it back up to 100% is not a problem as long as you will then use it. Storing the car for a few weeks or more is best done at around 80%. Finally it’s not ideal to charge it when the battery is already nearly full. Avoid charging if the battery is above 79-80% unless needed.

The car uses the camera to detect the road signs rather than GPS and we all know how hard some are to see properly. So sometimes it gets it wrong.

 

[Lovemyev]

Hi, just joined the MG community, and look forward to your experiences.
I bought a MG Phev two months ago, and have used the home charger supplied to charge to 100%, then run down to zero before recharging. The overnight charging suits me, but I see posts that say the battery should run between 30 and 80%. Am I doing damage to the battery?
The dealer said it was ok, but I'm not sure of their opinion.
Also, what does the small yellow triangle on the lhs of the driver screen mean? My dealer said it was due to the car being confused about the speed limit. Is that correct?

Hi and welcome !.
I owned a PHEV for four years, before going full BEV in 2019.
Most PHEV owners are likely to charge from empty to full all of the time, the battery is SO small that this is the only way to make full use of that small amount of electric power, thus saving on fossil fuel.
I guess your max range reported, will be around 30 miles ( as it was on my previous car ).
After you have owned the car for a few years, you will see that predicted range reduce slightly, yes.
But it is less important, because you have the engine as a back up.
My car would report a EV range of 32 miles when new.
When I sold the car after four years and about 30,000 miles, that range ( after a full charge ) had reduced to around 27 miles.
Of course, your predicted range in the summer months, will be more than the winter months.
Your MPG will be less also, this is no different to a BEV or to fossil cars.
Its unavoidable, so just charge to full and enjoy the car, without worrying about the effects on the HV battery health.
If you try to treat your battery kindly, by not letting run to zero and then not charging to full, then your EV mileage is going to very short, and frankly not worth bothering with !.
So, follow other PHEV owner ( like myself at one time ) and just charge and go !.

 

[manictomb]

Yes on the triangle I get that and others and I bet you charge your phone full and don't think about it I charge full my mg5 and others have also and have not any problems

 

[smokie]

My phone wasn't over £20k

As I think has been pointed out fairly frequently, the problems may (or may not) come later in the cars life.

 

[Lovemyev]

My phone wasn't over £20k

As I think has been pointed out fairly frequently, the problems may (or may not) come later in the cars life.

I agree.
There will be consequences of running the battery low and charging back up to full every time, in latter life.
But if you charge at what is considered the sweet spot, then charging from about 5 miles remaining, back up to 25 miles ( 80% SOC ) rather than 100% then your usable EV range is extremely low on a HS PHEV.
The fuel economy from the petrol engine allow is not that brilliant to be honest.
It only becomes a viable option if you maximise the full potential of that small EV battery to improve the economy.
PHEV’s are not really regarded as economic when comes to asking a lot of long distance journeys, due to all that extra weight in the battery etc they are hauling around, when the battery has been exhausted.
PHEV’s work effectively in a very selected user case.
More shorter trips than longer trips, when the EV range can be used exclusively and with not a lot of prolonged use of the ICE.
Like a full EV they have a selected user case, if your user case fits, they fantastic !.
The MPG figure returns for the ICE alone in the HS PHEV are not that brilliant, when used without the EV assistance to increase the efficiency.
Matching the “User Case” to suit the car is very important, our it could become difficult to justify the extra outlay of purchasing a PHEV in the first place.
When I owned a VW PHEV for over four years, it matched our usage case at that time.
The over haul MPG returns where very good, but I would charge almost very single night from a low SOC to 100% SOC.
Did it affect the HV battery long term ?.
Yes - After covering 30,000 the car would then only display 27 - 28 miles of range after a full charge.
When new it would display 32 miles of range.
So there was some battery degradation.
A little less important when you have the back up of a ICE though !.

 

[Jomarkh]

Yes on the triangle I get that and others and I bet you charge your phone full and don't think about it I charge full my mg5 and others have also and have not any problems

My daughter home at the moment and using a timer to make use of the Go tariff to charge up her phone etc. but it only get to 70%. this is because phone too don't like sitting at 100% charge so it works out what time you need the phone at 100% and delays the last 30%...

 

[5teep]

It's all very well saying you've been doing it all the time with no problem but as I understand it the issues arise as the car ages - after 5 years, or 7 years or whatever. And it won't necessarily be that serious at first but continually charging to 100% on rapids might well hasten the aging process in batteries.

So while I am of the opinion that the car will most likely have built-in limiters and whatnot to prevent damage, I tend to play it safe and only charge to 80%-ish on rapids, as for me this car is most likely a keeper. 100% at home though.

It's still too early to tell because the tech is evolving all the time. But. On current (google) data, EV batteries are supposed to be good for 200,000 miles or 17 years. How many folk here have kept a vehicle that long or driven one for that many miles?

Given that the average UK car drives about 9 miles daily, most people with EVs would only have to charge it once a fortnight anyway.

In 10 years time when you might be having problems, the technology will have moved on so far you'll probably be able to take a new battery home in a shopping bag.

 

[Lovemyev]

I think we all agree that Tesla know's a thing or two about software / batteries / charging etc.
Once you have received a ( high ) preset number of rapid charges, they update the software in the car, to restrict the speed at which you are able to charge, in an attempt to protect the life cycle of the pack.
I remember Tesla Bjorn doing a video covering just this subject on one of his own cars.
He did cover mega mileage and was rapid charging a lot though !.

 

[shayjeffs]

It's all very well saying you've been doing it all the time with no problem but as I understand it the issues arise as the car ages - after 5 years, or 7 years or whatever. And it won't necessarily be that serious at first but continually charging to 100% on rapids might well hasten the aging process in batteries.

So while I am of the opinion that the car will most likely have built-in limiters and whatnot to prevent damage, I tend to play it safe and only charge to 80%-ish on rapids, as for me this car is most likely a keeper. 100% at home though.

The question was whether is was ok

Charging to 100 % on 7 kW home charger.​

I think we all know it’s not a good idea to continually charge to 100% on rapid chargers, but don’t see the problem on a home 7kw charger. I do it every day.

 

[Lovemyev]

The question was whether is was ok

Charging to 100 % on 7 kW home charger.​

I think we all know it’s not a good idea to continually charge to 100% on rapid chargers, but don’t see the problem on a home 7kw charger. I do it every day.

I think the jury will be out for a long time on this debate to be honest.
For every review you read to say there is no major harm in charging to 100% every single time, you will find another that suggests it is bad practice !.
The same debate exists for rapid charging equally.
One thing is for sure, only time will tell I guess.
If you need to charge to 100% to conduct / suit your normal daily usage case, then the book is firmly closed on this subject, then simply you charge to 100% regardless, then game over !.
If you usage case is small, then why charge to 100% when you don’t need too ?.
It’s a bit like folks who run around with a full tank of petrol in their ICE cars, do one hundred miles a week, then fill the tank up again - why ?.
Force of habit I guess - who knows, or cares.
If you are a person who never keeps his / her EV long term, or is on a PCP / Lease then the likely hood, you are not bothered anyway.
Private long term owners may have a different out look on their battery health.

 

[Kithmo]

I may be totally wrong on this but my take on PHEV batteries is they don't go down to zero during running.
AFAIK, while driving, the BMS keeps them between 20% and 80% i.e. they stop discharging and switch to ICE power at 20% and they stop charging off the ICE at 80%.
Plugged in they will go to 100% of course.
As I said, I may be wrong but this was the case the last time I looked into them about 10 years ago, things may have moved on since then.

 

[manictomb]

Like your thoughts lovemyev yes those who will have there car long-term they may think that but I think they should enjoy the car all the yes and say in 10 yes time they need to change the battery then they be cheaper different as technology will have change and be different just like the basic ice smelly engine's

 

[Johnny 5 is alive]

Don’t worry about this 20%-80% nonsense. Just charge the car and use it as you wish. It has battery management computers that take care of it. It’s been designed to be used this way. You can happily leave it fully charged without worry.

Battery’s on trains/aircraft are constantly being charged to full when in use by the generators. They never degrade.

Mine was loaded onto the ship with 100% charge.

You would happily charge a laptop or phone to 100% for example.

For Info I’ve been using my car this way and already have 60k on the clock. With battery health at 99%

Just don’t worry about it.

You’d fill a petrol car tank to full. The technology is designed to mimic that type of usage.

I totally agree.
This myth seems to stem from an early Tesla recommendation to keep charge within 20-80% in order to stay within the optimum regeneration window. On my LR MG5, living in a rural area, I use the first 5% up going more or less anywhere pretty quickly and am therefore in full available regeneration mode anyway (which kicks in at 95% to stop the unlikely risk of overcharging an already full battery).
Any battery benefits from its safe available capacity being used. Lithium based batteries don't suffer from the same "memory effect" (better described as "loss of Capacity effect") as previous technologies such as Nickel Cadmium or Nickel Metal Hydride, but it makes no sense whatsoever to reduce an already limited range by using even less of the available range when you have already proved that charging to 100% every time isn't detrimental to battery life / capacity retention.
I'd actually go so far as to say using a 20% to 80% range is actually worse for the battery, certainly in individual cell balance terms, but that's just my opinion, and we are all entitled to our own

 

[manictomb]

Very true

 

[FormerOctavia]

Hello everyone!!!
I got my MG5 long range 3 weeks ago just wondering is it ok to charge up 100 % on my home 7 kw charger every time or just charger it up 100 before long trip ?
Thanks

To avoid charging to 100%, you can reduce the charging period. Or if you want to get nerdy, you can reduce the charge current. I had to do that when I got my car until my home mains fuse had been replaced. There was a danger that I could have blown it charging at the full rate

 

[Johnny 5 is alive]

Some phones have charge optimisation that reduces the charging rate and schedules end of charge to coincide with when you normally start using it again in the morning.
There are a lot of technical and scientific articles about charging which are worth reading. And then make up your mind what you do to suit your usage/lifestyle.
A disadvantage of going to 100% is that Regen can't be fully utilised until the charge has dropped a bit.

Any Lithium charging system ends its charge cycle with a "float taper" whereby the voltage is held at a constant level but every last milliamp hour is put into the battery until the point that the battery is full and the excess power is transferred into heat rather than capacity increase.
It is during this phase that most of the cell balancing takes place. So not letting the battery fully charge, at least every now and then, is more likely to produce the long-term balance issues that cause premature battery (or rather individual cell) degradation.

 

[Jomarkh]

To avoid charging to 100%, you can reduce the charging period. Or if you want to get nerdy, you can reduce the charge current. I had to do that when I got my car until my home mains fuse had been replaced. There was a danger that I could have blown it charging at the full rate

What EVSE do you have that can reduce the charge current? What else did you have drawing 30A to blow the fuse?

 

[Lguk]

I can dial my EO mini back. But it requires opening the unit to set the dial. I assume others are similar as others have said theirs were inadvertently/purposely set to 16amp by the installer.