Charging to 100 % on 7 kW home charger.

[Dobbin]

I have an MG5 Exclusive 22 pre-facelift and an Indra home charger with the Smart+ app. I am on the Octopus Go tariff which has cheap rate between 00:30 and 04:30 nightly. The only time settings I can find on the Smart+ app is the time I need the car to be ready by. Can anyone confirm that: a) the charger will automatically start charging during the cheap tariff period? b) it will automatically stop at the end of the cheap tariff period? And finally, do I need to set the car ready by to a time or can it be left blank? Hoping someone out there has the same system and can advise..

Hi I have the same car had it nearly a month lease from Vanarama and have the free Indra so called smart charger . Well it's not very smart it's only managed to charge the car once as per the settings on the app I'm also with Octopus Go tariff. It says when would you like your car ready by not when would you like to stop charging, so if your car isn't fully charged by 4.30 it will just crack on charging. Unless Indra themselves put the unit in to what they call pause mode. As far as I can see according to the new government definition's of a smart charger is, set out because all new build houses have to be fitted with one, it fails because the user doesn't have full control of the unit. I've been having nothing but trouble since it was fitted, as of today been sent an email from Indra admitting that there charger as issues with some EVs . They are trying one last fix tonight if it fails I will be asking for a different make of charger that is compatible with solar

 

[DK1083]

Hi I have the same car had it nearly a month lease from Vanarama and have the free Indra so called smart charger . Well it's not very smart it's only managed to charge the car once as per the settings on the app I'm also with Octopus Go tariff. It says when would you like your car ready by not when would you like to stop charging, so if your car isn't fully charged by 4.30 it will just crack on charging. Unless Indra themselves put the unit in to what they call pause mode. As far as I can see according to the new government definition's of a smart charger is, set out because all new build houses have to be fitted with one, it fails because the user doesn't have full control of the unit. I've been having nothing but trouble since it was fitted, as of today been sent an email from Indra admitting that there charger as issues with some EVs . They are trying one last fix tonight if it fails I will be asking for a different make of charger that is compatible with solar

Firstly, I'm amazed that you have an EV through Vanarama! I ordered mine last November and was told a fortnight ago that it might not arrive until next April. My local dealer had a cancelled order MG5 in the showroom so I signed up for that and cancelled the order with Vanarama.
Re home charging, I've only charged once so far. I entered my Octopus Go tariff details into the app and set it for 04:30 (ready by). The car was at 56% on starting and ended at 100%. The app said it had charged for 3 hours and 47 minutes at a cost of £2.05p. I assumed that when it reached 100% it had stopped charging.
I will be charging again this weekend so keeping fingers crossed that it works again!
The app is very basic and gives no options other than simple charging. I would rather I could set the time parameters, from and to, but it is what it is and as long as it charges when I want it to I guess I'm happy with it.

 

[Dobbin]

Firstly, I'm amazed that you have an EV through Vanarama! I ordered mine last November and was told a fortnight ago that it might not arrive until next April. My local dealer had a cancelled order MG5 in the showroom so I signed up for that and cancelled the order with Vanarama.
Re home charging, I've only charged once so far. I entered my Octopus Go tariff details into the app and set it for 04:30 (ready by). The car was at 56% on starting and ended at 100%. The app said it had charged for 3 hours and 47 minutes at a cost of £2.05p. I assumed that when it reached 100% it had stopped charging.
I will be charging again this weekend so keeping fingers crossed that it works again!
The app is very basic and gives no options other than simple charging. I would rather I could set the time parameters, from and to, but it is what it is and as long as it charges when I want it to I guess I'm happy with it.

Well good luck as our charger won't work with the app at all now. The only way to tell is let the car run down to a level where it can't fully charge in 4hrs, this is the second unit and a fitter came out to fit a new earth last week as Indra said that was the problem and it would be all fine after . It's still not working

 

[DK1083]

Ok. MG5 Exclusive. As previously said my first home charge using my Indra charger on Octopus Go started at the correct time, (00:30) at 56% and finished at 100% within the 4 hour cheaper tariff. When I checked the app at 7am it said the car had stopped charging and the app estimated 27.3kwh used. All good.
Last night I plugged in at 37%. Charging started at the correct time (00:30) but when I checked the app at 7am it showed the car was still charging despite having set the app ready time at 04:30. On checking the car it said it was connected and charging but the charge level was only at 87% and the estimated usage was 32.4kwh.
If it was still charging after 6+ hours I would have expected it to be higher than 87% but my question is why did the app not turn the charger off at 04:30?

 

[smokie]

In my mind, and very very roughly I reckon on about 10% per hour from my home charger so maybe your 50% is a bit low after 6 hours. Maybe it's not delivering the full 7kWh for some reason but maybe my 10% isn't accurate. Or maybe that's nothing to worry about.

It seems you are asking it to do the impossible (e.g. carry out 70% charge in a 4 hour window) and it's logic isn't very smart. In saying that I think it is their problem not yours. it looks to me from the manual like they ask the start of your cheap tariff but not the end. And also that there is no "whether to continue charging to full if the cheap tariff ends before the required time" question.

In the app you've not got Solar Matching set up have you? Assuming not, I'd be going to the manufacturer for some support.

 

[DK1083]

In my mind, and very very roughly I reckon on about 10% per hour from my home charger so maybe your 50% is a bit low after 6 hours. Maybe it's not delivering the full 7kWh for some reason but maybe my 10% isn't accurate. Or maybe that's nothing to worry about.

It seems you are asking it to do the impossible (e.g. carry out 70% charge in a 4 hour window) and it's logic isn't very smart. In saying that I think it is their problem not yours. it looks to me from the manual like they ask the start of your cheap tariff but not the end. And also that there is no "whether to continue charging to full if the cheap tariff ends before the required time" question.

In the app you've not got Solar Matching set up have you? Assuming not, I'd be going to the manufacturer for some support.

When I connect the charger to the car the app says “Connected not charging” and “charging will commence at cheapest time” or something similar. My tariff information is entered on the app and it does seem to recognise the start time, (00:30), so I assumed it would recognise the end time. Also, the app allows a “ready by” time to be entered so I set that for 04:30 which is the end of the cheap rate. This morning it seems to have ignored this and continued to charge.
I have emailed Indra and await their advice.

 

[BugEyed]

The various iterations of the Indra all require a car that provides API access to the battery charge data. To date no MG does, and whilst the facelift MG5 will have an App the same (more functional) version in the ZS Trophy Connect still doesn't. So all that the EVSE can do is keep charging until full unless you select the "only charge at off-peak" option.

 

[smokie]

I absolutely get that @BugEyed but I've used public chargers which correctly display the state of charge on my car (along with some public charger apps) so the info must be available. People have reported the rapid charges slow when over 80%.

So it must expose the SoC if nothing else.

 

[DK1083]

The various iterations of the Indra all require a car that provides API access to the battery charge data. To date no MG does, and whilst the facelift MG5 will have an App the same (more functional) version in the ZS Trophy Connect still doesn't. So all that the EVSE can do is keep charging until full unless you select the "only charge at off-peak" option.

Where would I find that option? As I said, my tariff is in the app and the app does say it will charge at the cheapest rate and although it seems to start at the correct time it doesn’t stop until the charge reaches 100% regardless of the tariff.

 

[BugEyed]

DC Rapid charging works from a different standard to AC charging and does expose the cars' SoC. Whilst possible to implement it is unlikely to feature anytime soon until the widespread adoption of ISO15118 AC V2G which is dragging its heals due to issues with the security certificates required before information is exchanged.
Not wanting to get political (for a change ) but we are part of the problem given our Chinese cars trying to connect to UK infrastructure.
Edit: fixed link

 

[BugEyed]

Where would I find that option? As I said, my tariff is in the app and the app does say it will charge at the cheapest rate and although it seems to start at the correct time it doesn’t stop until the charge reaches 100% regardless of the tariff.

It's different depending on which software you are running the Indra device on. At the moment it is charging to full as cheaply as possible, you need to set it to only charge at cheap rate and not have a charge target.

 

[DK1083]

It's different depending on which software you are running the Indra device on. At the moment it is charging to full as cheaply as possible, you need to set it to only charge at cheap rate and not have a charge target.

That’s the problem. I’m using the Indra Pro charger with the Smart+ app on the Octopus Go tariff. I have entered the tariff information into the app but although it will start a charge at the beginning of the cheapest period it doesn’t stop when the period ends. All I can find is schedule which can be set for the time the car is needed by - but it doesn’t seem to stop the charge.
I have emailed both Indra and Chargedev (who installed the charger), for advice.

 

[Dobbin]

Simple it's not a smart charger, it's not possible to set the finish time of a cheap overnight tariff. Indra have to do it. You will need to contact them and advise them you want the charger to only charge on the time of your cheap tariff, hope you have more luck than me mine as only worked as requested twice in a month of use. Indra call it putting the unit in to pause mode don't know why, have been trying with a lot of patience to persevere but this weekend is the last chance saloon for Indra. There latest excuse of why it won't work came up on Friday they asked if I had a TP link WiFi range extender in the house which I do, told me that this was the problem so turned it off Friday night hoping that it would fix the problem no joy car still not charged or Saturday yesterday thought that I might as well turn the extender back on. Well got up this morning and the car is charged, very strange that's only the second time that it's worked for a month. Will be ringing Indra and Charged EV Tuesday and requesting a Zappi , it's not smart and it's not reliable. Good luck and please keep us updated on your progress with this .

 

[BugEyed]

Simple it's not a smart charger

That's a matter of semantics - the issue is that the car will not share information. With cars that share information regarding SoC it works well. Frankly if you were sold it as working with the MG then you were miss-sold, either by Vanarama or ChargedEV as I doubt that Indra dealt with you directly before you had it installed.

 

[Harry]

Hi and welcome !.
I owned a PHEV for four years, before going full BEV in 2019.
Most PHEV owners are likely to charge from empty to full all of the time, the battery is SO small that this is the only way to make full use of that small amount of electric power, thus saving on fossil fuel.
I guess your max range reported, will be around 30 miles ( as it was on my previous car ).
After you have owned the car for a few years, you will see that predicted range reduce slightly, yes.
But it is less important, because you have the engine as a back up.
My car would report a EV range of 32 miles when new.
When I sold the car after four years and about 30,000 miles, that range ( after a full charge ) had reduced to around 27 miles.
Of course, your predicted range in the summer months, will be more than the winter months.
Your MPG will be less also, this is no different to a BEV or to fossil cars.
Its unavoidable, so just charge to full and enjoy the car, without worrying about the effects on the HV battery health.
If you try to treat your battery kindly, by not letting run to zero and then not charging to full, then your EV mileage is going to very short, and frankly not worth bothering with !.
So, follow other PHEV owner ( like myself at one time ) and just charge and go !.

Because a phev will just turn to the ICE when the battery is "empty" - it does that when the battery is in fact down to 20% - just like my house battery charged by solar in the day and by cheap tariff at night, There the back up is the grid - the house battery never gets below 20%, Full bevs though go lower. My wife's VW e-Up! has a battery capacity of 36.8 kWh but only 32.3 kWh are useable. That difference is only 12%. The MG ZSev LR figures are 72.6 and 68.3 - difference less than 6%. My 2017 BMW 225xe (phev) has a 7.7kWh battery of which I can use 5.8 That difference is 25%.

 

[Alanp]

It's all very well saying you've been doing it all the time with no problem but as I understand it the issues arise as the car ages - after 5 years, or 7 years or whatever. And it won't necessarily be that serious at first but continually charging to 100% on rapids might well hasten the aging process in batteries.

So while I am of the opinion that the car will most likely have built-in limiters and whatnot to prevent damage, I tend to play it safe and only charge to 80%-ish on rapids, as for me this car is most likely a keeper. 100% at home though.

Yes Smokie, there's a lot of people looking at battery degradation through rose tinted glasses. It's a fact, like it or not, that LC (Lithium/Cobalt) batteries do degrade and degrade faster if eg they are charged regularly up to 100%. The worlds major Chinese battery makers like CATL are moving/have moved to LFP (Lithium Ferrous Phosphate) battery chemistry to avoid this problem. Even though LFP batteries have a lower specific power than LC, their advantage is that they can be regularly charged to 100% without the worry of degradation BUT since they can be charged to 100% compared to 80% it's a winning battery type. They have also developed an LFP battery with manganese, LMFP, which raises the specific power to that of LC batteries. A win win situation IF your EV has LFP or LMFP batteries. However I understand that only one of the new MG4s in the range currently has LFP, the rest LC.

 

[Harry 17]

Yes Smokie, there's a lot of people looking at battery degradation through rose tinted glasses. It's a fact, like it or not, that LC (Lithium/Cobalt) batteries do degrade and degrade faster if eg they are charged regularly up to 100%. The worlds major Chinese battery makers like CATL are moving/have moved to LFP (Lithium Ferrous Phosphate) battery chemistry to avoid this problem. Even though LFP batteries have a lower specific power than LC, their advantage is that they can be regularly charged to 100% without the worry of degradation BUT since they can be charged to 100% compared to 80% it's a winning battery type. They have also developed an LFP battery with manganese, LMFP, which raises the specific power to that of LC batteries. A win win situation IF your EV has LFP or LMFP batteries. However I understand that only one of the new MG4s in the range currently has LFP, the rest LC.

This begs the question (well from at least ) what type of Battery chemistry the new Extended range will have when it debuts next year. If it is going to be circa 330 miles, it would be a shame to have to knock off 20% of the capacity more often than not.

 

[Dobbin]

That's a matter of semantics - the issue is that the car will not share information. With cars that share information regarding SoC it works well. Frankly if you were sold it as working with the MG then you were miss-sold, either by Vanarama or ChargedEV as I doubt that Indra dealt with you directly before you had it installed.

Regulations: electric vehicle smart charge points

Guidance for sellers.

www.gov.uk

Sorry but its got nothing to do with the car this is a qoute from the above link no mention of cars make or model
Charge points must also:

• incorporate pre-set, off peak, default charging hours and allow the owner to accept, remove or change these upon first use and subsequently
• allow for a randomised delay function you are correct about being miss-sold and its something that they will have to correct as its states in the terms and conditions of Vanararma that the charger is smart but by the regulations set out the Indra is not
• what is smart about not being able to set a stop charge time it just doesnt make sense if you can set a start time why not a finish time, i would have thought that they were absolute basics to start with if you were bringing a smart charger to market
• what do you think im new to this so cant claim to know a lot, i can only give comment from my limited experience so far

 

[Alanp]

This begs the question (well from at least ) what type of Battery chemistry the new Extended range will have when it debuts next year. If it is going to be circa 330 miles, it would be a shame to have to knock off 20% of the capacity more often than not.

Exactly! There's more to EVs than meets the eye. Battery types and their pros and cons should be more widely known. It's kind of like the old diesel v petrol situation with ICE cars, pros and cons eg mpg, performance, pollution, price per litre etc but over time most people were able to make their choice of petrol or diesel based on knowledge, at least in the last few years. That needs to happen with EV battery types before buyers end up with the wrong choice for their needs.

 

[BugEyed]

This begs the question (well from at least ) what type of Battery chemistry the new Extended range will have when it debuts next year. If it is going to be circa 330 miles, it would be a shame to have to knock off 20% of the capacity more often than not.

Who needs to use the whole 330 mile range between each refill? Even at motorway speeds that's way beyond the safe time limits for regular use.