Equalisation charge - NMC battery

[decrep]

"As the vehicle is charging, it will show blue lights around the charging area, green when it is fully charged. When all of the lights have gone off, this confirms the battery equalisation has taken place"

Wrong.

As the vehicle is charging, it will display blue lights when preparing to charge and green lights around the charging points when charging. The charging port lights power off when charging is complete.

Best you correct your MG contact point.

Seems like this was just an individuals take on it and not an "official" response, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[Joningy]

"As the vehicle is charging, it will show blue lights around the charging area, green when it is fully charged. When all of the lights have gone off, this confirms the battery equalisation has taken place"

Wrong.

As the vehicle is charging, it will display blue lights when preparing to charge and green lights around the charging points when charging. The charging port lights power off when charging is complete.

Best you correct your MG contact point.

Seems like this was just an individuals take on it and not an "official" response, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I think poor ole @Tuareg may converting Chinese into Greek and getting his things in a twist, calm down chum, we are all trying to help, if you need to reply, be civil or helpful.

 

[decrep]

I think poor ole @Tuareg may converting Chinese into Greek and getting his things in a twist, calm down chum, we are all trying to help, if you need to reply, be civil or helpful.

That's OK Chum, what he says agrees 100% with what I see on my car.

Don't tell me that different models do different things with the lights, as well as charging.

BTW I'm perfectly calm, just stating what seems perfectly obvious from what I observe.

However at my age you start to have self doubts, so I just plugged the car in. Here's the sequence I observed.
Open charge door, light blue lights on, a few seconds later lights go out, plug car in, dark blue lights on, turn on charger, after a few relay clicks lights turn green, number of lights on indicating state of charge.
So this does agree with Tuareg, I humbly suggest, you go to your car and post here the exact sequence you get. Then we can all wonder at the mean tricks MG are playing on us.

When real life doesn't agree with what is stated, I feel it's permissible to doubt all the words in that statement.

 

[Tuareg]

I think poor ole @Tuareg may converting Chinese into Greek and getting his things in a twist, calm down chum, we are all trying to help, if you need to reply, be civil or helpful.

Not 'converting' anything, just pointing out some very basic errors which some will then use and blame MG for some sort of bugs where in fact it's the usual user errors and then we have pages of nonsense to clog up the forum as has happened umpteen times before. Discrediting someone who pointed out a clear, basic error is very disrespectful and unhelpful. You need to go take some chill pills.

 

[Data]

Ok so I'm back. This seems a requirement to remind everyone that MG customer support here in the UK has told me exactly the same thing (as I have previously mentioned in more than one thread) as told to Joningy. That is with the exception of the blue & green lights, which if you think for a moment about it, is pretty much irrelevant as the car just does it's own thing & clearly is just an oversight by the MG person replying. Making an error concerning the lights does not invalidate the information.

In addition to what Joningy & myself have been instructed to do regarding how to do a proper equalisation, my dealer has also confirmed this whole process telling me exactly the same information as MG customer support. And to remind folks, it's the only way to do a proper equalisation & retain maximum battery health.

What do people want, blood?? Everyone is free to do as Jon & me have done. None of this is secret information. As Joningy says...we're just trying to help. But we are often met with what seems like a wall of scepticism & sometimes from some individuals, even hostility. Skepticism GOOD, Sillyness NOT GOOD.

Having said all this most of the conversations with folks on here in this thread have been extremely enjoyable & informative. Doesn't actually matter what your view point is, just base it on common sense & the evidence which is actually everywhere.
Thanks everyone.

 

[Joningy]

That's OK Chum, what he says agrees 100% with what I see on my car.

Don't tell me that different models do different things with the lights, as well as charging.

BTW I'm perfectly calm, just stating what seems perfectly obvious from what I observe.

However at my age you start to have self doubts, so I just plugged the car in. Here's the sequence I observed.
Open charge door, light blue lights on, a few seconds later lights go out, plug car in, dark blue lights on, turn on charger, after a few relay clicks lights turn green, number of lights on indicating state of charge.
So this does agree with Tuareg, I humbly suggest, you go to your car and post here the exact sequence you get. Then we can all wonder at the mean tricks MG are playing on us.

When real life doesn't agree with what is stated, I feel it's permissible to doubt all the words in that statement.

I don't disagree with you @decrep. I know the light sequence is incorrect in the MG reply, but that is word for word as it was written. it's the manner in which the odd person tries to dominate a conversation, your reply was perfectly polite, I'm happy to talk to polite people.
BTW, I'm also creeping on too at 77, but don't need take rudeness or bullshit.
This forum is for helping each other, not to be rude to others, that may not have been his intention, but how I perceived it.
Somebody else summed it up that it was probably a personal opinion, and likely he mixed up the colour sequence.

 

[Joningy]

Ok so I'm back. This seems a requirement to remind everyone that MG customer support here in the UK has told me exactly the same thing (as I have previously mentioned in more than one thread) as told to Joningy. That is with the exception of the blue & green lights, which if you think for a moment about it, is pretty much irrelevant as the car just does it's own thing & clearly is just an oversight by the MG person replying. Making an error concerning the lights does not invalidate the information.

In addition to what Joningy & myself have been instructed to do regarding how to do a proper equalisation, my dealer has also confirmed this whole process telling me exactly the same information as MG customer support. And to remind folks, it's the only way to do a proper equalisation & retain maximum battery health.

What do people want, blood?? Everyone is free to do as Jon & me have done. None of this is secret information. As Joningy says...we're just trying to help. But we are often met with what seems like a wall of scepticism & sometimes from some individuals, even hostility. Skepticism GOOD, Sillyness NOT GOOD.

Having said all this most of the conversations with folks on here in this thread have been extremely enjoyable & informative. Doesn't actually matter what your view point is, just base it on common sense & the evidence which is actually everywhere.
Thanks everyone.

At least someone sees it similar to me and many people too I'd guess .
Overall I think MG is a great budget car, I like the brand name from old,.
New MG now make very good cars and their reliability is getting much better, my MG4 never missed a beat in nearly 2 years. I'm hoping my new MGS5 will be similar.
But perhaps at a higher level their customer service could be improved a bit, but let's try to be fair, they are obviously putting in huge efforts to make cars, I can forgive them for not being PERFIK with their instructions at times.
In my mind we've sorted out the basics, ie charge to 100% once a month, but I'm not keen on taking SOC down so low as 10% or even 20% to achieve what everyone in this part of the forum is here seeking information about.

 

[siteguru]

The bottom line (if you have an NMC battery pack) ...

• Balancing at any SoC is better than not balancing at all
• Balancing at 100% is better still
• Try to do a <10% to 100% calibration charge then final balance at least every 6 months (to recalibrate the BMS).

4 pages of thread condensed.

 

[Joningy]

The bottom line (if you have an NMC battery pack) ...

• Balancing at any SoC is better than not balancing at all
• Balancing at 100% is better still
• Try to do a <10% to 100% calibration charge then final balance at least every 6 months (to recalibrate the BMS).

4 pages of thread condensed.

Thanks @siteguru I think that now should give NMC battery owner's a technical goal.
But must the charge be done in one hit? or is it possible over 2 separate charges (I suspect not) using Octopus 11.30pm to 5.30am 7p/kWh tariff?
My Ohme Home Pro, won't reach the target in one go (never seen it above 6kW charge rate) so assuming it charges @6 kW, which of course it won't, especially towards the end of the charge, I don't expect it to be anything like full charge in 6 hours.
It's very easy to change the charge window to 100% and small additional cost even if using a monthly or bi-monthly full charge.

 

[Data]

My Zappy charger gives me the full UK 7.1KW as it charges. But to do a full equalisation, going down to about 18 or 19% it overuns to normal electric prices. That's fine by me as it's not by very much. I was told the charge had to be a full uninterrupted charge & to turn off smart charging beforehand. Otherwise smart charging may interrupt the charge which causes the BMS to 'forget' it's supposed to be doing an equalisation calibration. My dealer & MG have both said this & Octopus energy my leccy supplier.

Edit: the only thing to bear in mind is that MG & my dealer were talking to me directly about an NMC battery pack. It's possible that LFP might not be affected by an interruption, or it might. I'm not sure.

 

[siteguru]

Thanks @siteguru I think that now should give NMC battery owner's a technical goal.
But must the charge be done in one hit? or is it possible over 2 separate charges (I suspect not) using Octopus 11.30pm to 5.30am 7p/kWh tariff?

Received wisdom is that the former applies ... the <10% (or whatever, depending on car model) to 100% and balance charge should be done on an AC charge point and in a single, contiguous session.

 

[Lovemyev]

Bjørn Nyland made a great simple comment on his channel, regarding different battery types.
In regards to why the manufactures of LFP batteries recommend that you should charge from any point of SOC to 100% every single time.
He stated that LFP batteries have a problem of calculating a close to accurate range, especially when in very cold climates, after charging to a figure LESS than 100% SOC.
NMC batteries much better in this regard.
The more times his is carried out on LFP batteries, the predicted figure becomes less and less accurate.
He went on to say that:- Of course this does not apply to the NMC packs of course, as these are treated differently. Charging to 100% is recommended when longer trips are required, and battery balancing.
Normally charging to 80% SOC is regarded as best practice in this case, for long term battery health.
This is from a man who spends more time with EV's than most of us ever will in two life times.

 

[Joningy]

Received wisdom is that the former applies ... the <10% (or whatever, depending on car model) to 100% and balance charge should be done on an AC charge point and in a single, contiguous session.

PERFIK as I thought, too late for outgoing MG4, but just in time for new MGS5 when I get home from holiday at the weekend.

 

[MG Clive]

Like most EV drivers, I neither know nor care what type of battery my car has, and I just charge it when it needs charging, this works well enough for me.

 

[Joningy]

Bjørn Nyland made a great simple comment on his channel, regarding different battery types.
In regards to why the manufactures of LFP batteries recommend that you should charge from any point of SOC to 100% every single time.
He stated that LFP batteries have a problem of calculating a close to accurate range, especially when in very cold climates, after charging to a figure LESS than 100% SOC.
NMC batteries much better in this regard.
The more times his is carried out on LFP batteries, the predicted figure becomes less and less accurate.
He went on to say that:- Of course this does not apply to the NMC packs of course, as these are treated differently. Charging to 100% is recommended when longer trips are required, and battery balancing.
Normally charging to 80% SOC is regarded as best practice in this case, for long term battery health.
This is from a man who spends more time with EV's than most of us ever will in two life times.

The most of us here will workout a plan to try and do the best we can, but unless every MG Buyer is made aware of the need to negate battery degradation (which I'm guessing isn't even in the sales jargon of most car salesman) by the method we have been been going around in ever decreasing circles about here, most people, not just MG buyers charging every way possible and convenient, will still leave their battery for the next purchaser in a totally unknown condition, but will probably make little difference to the resale value, unless there's some built in monitor of battery maintenance.
Now I'm retired, I normally keep a car longer than the couple of years I'll be keeping my MG4.

 

[Lovemyev]

Battery degradation will happen regardless of what you do, all we can do as private owners, is help slow down the process, by treating the battery in the best way we possibly can.
If you need to charge, then you need to charge, it’s as simple as that.
The treatment we hope to offer our batteries, will largely depend if the car is on lease or PCP / deal or private ownership I feel.
If you have invested your own hard earned cash into a new EV AND you intend to keep it a number of years, then yes it may pay to give it a bit of love .
On the other hand, if it’s a lease / PCP vehicle, then you’re not going to give a dam to be honest.
It’s not your car and you treat it accordingly.
As you will be only keeping the car a short time and are passing the problem to the next owners, down the line.

 

[Tuareg]

Who owns who? If you own the car, charge as and when needed ans use as needed. If the car owns you then spend big chunks of your life graphing soh , cell values etc. Your will constantly be avoiding using your car as it was intended and........it will be worth exactly the same anyway on resale.

 

[Joningy]

Battery degradation will happen regardless of what you do, all we can do as private owners, is help slow down the process, by treating the battery in the best way we possibly can.
If you need to charge, then you need to charge, it’s as simple as that.
The treatment we hope to offer our batteries, will largely depend if the car is on lease or PCP / deal or private ownership I feel.
If you have invested your own hard earned cash into a new EV AND you intend to keep it a number of years, then yes it may pay to give it a bit of love .
On the other hand, if it’s a lease / PCP vehicle, then you’re not going to give a dam to be honest.
It’s not your car and you treat it accordingly.
As you will be only keeping the car a short time and are passing the problem to the next owners, down the line.

MG4 = 0% interest PCP.. MGS5 bought outright, it's mine!
PCP was an excellent deal as it turned out for me.
But to anyone who did a similar 0% PCP as me, shoot it on and pick up another one, don't be worried for the finance company, it's a VERY, very rare occasion anything gets past them.
I just hope there's nobody feeling guilty about not paying the final "baloon payment" I bet there's someone out there paying more than the car is currently worth.

 

[Data]

Who owns who? If you own the car, charge as and when needed ans use as needed. If the car owns you then spend big chunks of your life graphing soh , cell values etc. Your will constantly be avoiding using your car as it was intended and........it will be worth exactly the same anyway on resale.

Couldn't agree more Tuareg. Don't stress about your battery. It'll be fine but just do your best to look after it if you intend to keep your car for a very long time.

 

[Lovemyev]

Who pays the final ballon payment at the end of a PCP plan ?.
Nobody I would hazard a guess