LFP longevity not panning out in the real world?

[Gadget Geek]

All LFP batteries will have a buffer, as completely draining an LFP will kill it.

 

[Data]

I saw a well evidenced report saying batteries are doing much better than expected - they think because the expectation is base don lab tests where the battery is continually charged up and discharged and that in the real world batteries spend more time sitting cold and not charging or discharging! I think most people don't charge their LFPO to 100% every day - they just don't need to so they leave it until it has run down a fair way unless they are off on a long trip. It has certainly been how we've charged. And I've seen a road test video of the LFP which achieved 27 miles after reaching zero% suggesting there is a buffer even on the LFP.. Most of what goes around is put out there by big oil to scare us. You just plug it in like your phone and it works.

Yes I've seen a report from I think the 'Battery University' stating that real world results on battery longevity are far far better than the previously projected figures based upon lab testing over the years. This was also reported in the mainstream media & has been backed up by other researchers. No, I cant remember who else has researched it so look it up. It's all been widely referenced & has been known for a few months now. In 'real life' batteries whether NMC or LFP are performing better than expected with much lower degradation than envisaged. Based upon this new evidence gathered from Tesla & various other sources plus lots of further research over a very long period, batteries will in many cases outlast the car. Typically this means a 16-24 year life for the battery in the average EV. Remember, our EV engines don't wear out in the same way that ICE engines do, so our cars should typically last quite a bit longer as we don't have to splash out on major engine parts.

Considering that in Europe ICE engines & transmissions typically last 14 years (source: the AA) I'd say it's a win for EV's.

PS. The original report on how good batteries are lasting in the real world comes from research at the UCLA. Pretty sure it was them that first announced it's research results.

In theory, LFP batteries should last for many more cycles than NMC, giving them a longer life.

However, I am increasingly hearing that this isn't always true in practice and I am curious if anyone has any more evidence on this.

The reasons put forward why LFP doesn't do as well in the real world compared to NMC:

• Manufacturers use LFP batteries as a low-cost option with little or no "buffers" whereas NMC typically have significant upper and lower buffers (as much as 7-10%) to protect against degradation. So while LFP commonly drops to the low 90%ish range after 2-3 years, NMC can still be at 100% (just with smaller buffers).

• NMC is typically charged to 80% most of the time, limiting the damage from high states of charge. LFP is typically charged to 100%, something it can tolerate much better, but which still causes some degredation (people do not typically know this), particularly when left at 100% for a long period of time.

• NMC tolerates high discharge and charge rates much better, so even with the higher charge speeds possible with NMC, less damage may be done through lots of public charging.

• LFP performs relatively poorly in cold weather, with more dramatic range drops than NMC, affecting real world range in colder climates.

• Battery aging effects are more dominant than was expected for all types of chemistry, so the benefits are less than were predicted.

• NMC real world ranges have held up better than all the predictions.

This is how the argument goes as I have heard it.

I accept that chemistry doesn't really matter that much and all battery types are good enough for most people. We will no doubt look back in a few years time and laugh at ourselves for being concerned with it, like debates on the type of oil we used to put in an ICE engine.

But I am curious nonetheless about how theory is translating into practice. All views welcome but particularly anyone with evidence to back them up.

Never heard about any of this. In fact the reality is quite the contrary. All battery types are doing much much better than expected, as per my post above. I've tried to find evidence to back up this hear say you mention & can't find any. Where are you hearing this information from?

Of course, there's always the odd battery that may fail early but it's quite rare. We have 16 years of evidence from Nissan & 13 years of evidence from Tesla about just how good both main battery chemistries are. So no need to worry.