LFP longevity not panning out in the real world?

[Gadget Geek]

All LFP batteries will have a buffer, as completely draining an LFP will kill it.

 

[Data]

I saw a well evidenced report saying batteries are doing much better than expected - they think because the expectation is base don lab tests where the battery is continually charged up and discharged and that in the real world batteries spend more time sitting cold and not charging or discharging! I think most people don't charge their LFPO to 100% every day - they just don't need to so they leave it until it has run down a fair way unless they are off on a long trip. It has certainly been how we've charged. And I've seen a road test video of the LFP which achieved 27 miles after reaching zero% suggesting there is a buffer even on the LFP.. Most of what goes around is put out there by big oil to scare us. You just plug it in like your phone and it works.

Yes I've seen a report from I think the 'Battery University' stating that real world results on battery longevity are far far better than the previously projected figures based upon lab testing over the years. This was also reported in the mainstream media & has been backed up by other researchers. No, I cant remember who else has researched it so look it up. It's all been widely referenced & has been known for a few months now. In 'real life' batteries whether NMC or LFP are performing better than expected with much lower degradation than envisaged. Based upon this new evidence gathered from Tesla & various other sources plus lots of further research over a very long period, batteries will in many cases outlast the car. Typically this means a 16-24 year life for the battery in the average EV. Remember, our EV engines don't wear out in the same way that ICE engines do, so our cars should typically last quite a bit longer as we don't have to splash out on major engine parts.

Considering that in Europe ICE engines & transmissions typically last 14 years (source: the AA) I'd say it's a win for EV's.

PS. The original report on how good batteries are lasting in the real world comes from research at the UCLA. Pretty sure it was them that first announced it's research results.

In theory, LFP batteries should last for many more cycles than NMC, giving them a longer life.

However, I am increasingly hearing that this isn't always true in practice and I am curious if anyone has any more evidence on this.

The reasons put forward why LFP doesn't do as well in the real world compared to NMC:

• Manufacturers use LFP batteries as a low-cost option with little or no "buffers" whereas NMC typically have significant upper and lower buffers (as much as 7-10%) to protect against degradation. So while LFP commonly drops to the low 90%ish range after 2-3 years, NMC can still be at 100% (just with smaller buffers).

• NMC is typically charged to 80% most of the time, limiting the damage from high states of charge. LFP is typically charged to 100%, something it can tolerate much better, but which still causes some degredation (people do not typically know this), particularly when left at 100% for a long period of time.

• NMC tolerates high discharge and charge rates much better, so even with the higher charge speeds possible with NMC, less damage may be done through lots of public charging.

• LFP performs relatively poorly in cold weather, with more dramatic range drops than NMC, affecting real world range in colder climates.

• Battery aging effects are more dominant than was expected for all types of chemistry, so the benefits are less than were predicted.

• NMC real world ranges have held up better than all the predictions.

This is how the argument goes as I have heard it.

I accept that chemistry doesn't really matter that much and all battery types are good enough for most people. We will no doubt look back in a few years time and laugh at ourselves for being concerned with it, like debates on the type of oil we used to put in an ICE engine.

But I am curious nonetheless about how theory is translating into practice. All views welcome but particularly anyone with evidence to back them up.

Never heard about any of this. In fact the reality is quite the contrary. All battery types are doing much much better than expected, as per my post above. I've tried to find evidence to back up this hear say you mention & can't find any. Where are you hearing this information from?

Of course, there's always the odd battery that may fail early but it's quite rare. We have 16 years of evidence from Nissan & 13 years of evidence from Tesla about just how good both main battery chemistries are. So no need to worry.

 

[ajs]

I've been using LFP batteries for 8 or 9 years in deep-cycle use with regular 100% charging. One is a motorcycle start battery, another for a small off-grid solar installation in a garage where it provides mainly lighting and battery conditioning. Both batteries are still running well, neither has any noticeable degradation in normal use.

LiFePO4 batteries have been widely used in many applications over the past 10 years and proven to be very durable. Unless there is actual evidence of LFP batteries performing poorly in EVs despite their proven track record in other uses I don't think there's much to worry about.

 

[alisonsto]

Out of interest - and I'm entirely happy with the car and had the information at time of purchase (at a good cash price) - my Dec 2022 MG4 SE's SOH is 91.93%; what kind of charging behaviours by previous owner/s would have led to this relatively low %age? Mileage was nearly 18k when purchased in Jun 2025. I'll be balance charging etc and "filling" to 100% at home pretty much all the time from now on and realise I can't reverse the degradation.

 

[Rolfe]

My April 2023 model was reported as being at 93% (20,000 miles) at the last service, in May. I'm not actually noticing any difference in range at all.

 

[Data]

Out of interest - and I'm entirely happy with the car and had the information at time of purchase (at a good cash price) - my Dec 2022 MG4 SE's SOH is 91.93%; what kind of charging behaviours by previous owner/s would have led to this relatively low %age? Mileage was nearly 18k when purchased in Jun 2025. I'll be balance charging etc and "filling" to 100% at home pretty much all the time from now on and realise I can't reverse the degradation.

It doesn't sound bad at all Alison. Most of an EV's initial battery degradation seems to happen in the first year or so then it starts to settle down. So no need to concern yourself. Rolfe's degradation is similar also. We have 5 EV's in our family with differing chemistries in their batteries, they too lost more than the normal percentages in the first year or so. But then started to stabilise. As Rolfe says, the range doesn't seem affected by much at all on any of them. There are some really good videos on YouTube that can give you really good advice on the best way to look after your battery pack if you are not so sure. I can't name them at the moment but a quick search will reveal all. Good luck & enjoy your car.

 

[5teep]

Out of interest - and I'm entirely happy with the car and had the information at time of purchase (at a good cash price) - my Dec 2022 MG4 SE's SOH is 91.93%; what kind of charging behaviours by previous owner/s would have led to this relatively low %age? Mileage was nearly 18k when purchased in Jun 2025. I'll be balance charging etc and "filling" to 100% at home pretty much all the time from now on and realise I can't reverse the degradation.

I think the thing that affects soh most is charging on DC, if the previous owner did a lot of that instead of say a home AC charger then that could have caused it.

 

[tsedge]

I think the thing that affects soh most is charging on DC, if the previous owner did a lot of that instead of say a home AC charger then that could have caused it.

I have heard that ageing often dominates any actual usage factors, although obviously abuse can make it worse.

 

[Rolfe]

Over the longer term reports are that batteries are doing a lot better than anticipated, even if there has been a lot of DC charging. I reckon do the best you can, and don't worry about it.

 

[5teep]

This ^

 

[Joningy]

Far too many folk (influencers..) on the internet who just talk sh*** and expect folk to believe it. With batteries especially, not just EV but all batteries, misinformation just propagates and you cannot stop it.

e.g. the nonsense about batteries suffering from a 'memory effect' where if you only ever charge to ~80% they will come to think they are full at 80%. I've seen youtubers and others say that all kinds of lithium batteries suffer from it and it's just not true.
Way back, way way back when Nickle Cadmium batteries were a thing, THEY had that problem but no batteries since have had it. But then some talking head with followers says it's so and suddenly it's all round the globe.

Understandably there's a fair bit of worry about how you treat an EV battery, it's a darned expensive item after all. We're getting to the point now where we can see that the worry is not warranted and as long as you don't regularly mistreat yours it will last way past the lifetime of the car.

I agree with most of the comments here.
Batteries of all types degrade over time and with use, that's been established,
Memory effect is associated with old Nicad technology, long become a more or less redundant, I'm not aware of it being used at all now, but somebody may know differently as is regular here
New battery technology is emerging rapidly around the world.
Just yesterday I watched how Mercedes are doing some amazing distances, this will continue to improve, with most battery manufacturers!
I've got a friend who thinks hydrogen (H2) will win, but I think as a normal car / automobile fuel, electrical transmission is so far ahead in terms of infrastructure, it'll be around for some time (in my mind)
Although commercial vehicles will adopt H2 quicker, already in the pipeline in England is Bristol docks M4 corridor to London. For those like me who are interested in the tech.
Firms show off hydrogen-fuelled road network tech
This from a technical point of view is easier to get yer head around, as the additional weight of current batteries probably have quite a negative effect on the load carried vs distance travelled.
But where we live near Salisbury our park and ride busses are electric powered, that applies to lots of areas of the UK.

 

[Bam Bam]

I agree with most of the comments here.
Batteries of all types degrade over time and with use, that's been established,
Memory effect is associated with old Nicad technology, long become a more or less redundant, I'm not aware of it being used at all now, but somebody may know differently as is regular here
New battery technology is emerging rapidly around the world.
Just yesterday I watched how Mercedes are doing some amazing distances, this will continue to improve, with most battery manufacturers!

Indeed.

Lots of new chemistries, meaning that each use case can have its own optimal chemistry.

I've got a friend who thinks hydrogen (H2) will win, but I think as a normal car / automobile fuel, electrical transmission is so far ahead in terms of infrastructure, it'll be around for some time (in my mind)
Although commercial vehicles will adopt H2 quicker, already in the pipeline in England is Bristol docks M4 corridor to London. For those like me who are interested in the tech.
Firms show off hydrogen-fuelled road network tech (you'll need to copy and paste)
This from a technical point of view is easier to get yer head around, as the additional weight of current batteries probably have quite a negative effect on the load carried vs distance travelled.

I'm sceptical of H2 claims. It is beloved by the fossil fuel industry (who currently make all the hydrogen in a very polluting manner) as a way to disparage batteries and heat pumps with something 'better' just around the corner.

Also used as a crutch by people who don't want to have to change their way of thinking and learn the new technologies.

Michael Leibreich is very good on hydrogen with his hydrogen ladder. It is necessary for some things, but won't be able to compete for others because it is so inefficient and expensive to store/transport.

As it happens I watched this new video about it last night:



Green hydrogen will be very important in the future, but only for a few uses.

Trucking?
There is a guy with a you tube channel who is driving battery trucks in Germany. I would have thought that a mixture of battery and pantographs will be the future of long distance trucking, but then we can't even electrify our train lines that quickly so I'm not sure motorways will happen that quickly.

 

[EVsince2016]

Indeed.

Lots of new chemistries, meaning that each use case can have its own optimal chemistry.


I'm sceptical of H2 claims. It is beloved by the fossil fuel industry (who currently make all the hydrogen in a very polluting manner) as a way to disparage batteries and heat pumps with something 'better' just around the corner.

Also used as a crutch by people who don't want to have to change their way of thinking and learn the new technologies.

Michael Leibreich is very good on hydrogen with his hydrogen ladder. It is necessary for some things, but won't be able to compete for others because it is so inefficient and expensive to store/transport.

As it happens I watched this new video about it last night:
c


Green hydrogen will be very important in the future, but only for a few uses.

Trucking?
There is a guy with a you tube channel who is driving battery trucks in Germany. I would have thought that a mixture of battery and pantographs will be the future of long distance trucking, but then we can't even electrify our train lines that quickly so I'm not sure motorways will happen that quickly.

He tried out the Hydrogen trucks too.

Said that they cost a lot more to buy, several times as much to fuel up and were not good.

Key issue was fueling up times! Slower than EV charging!! Apparently, they fill well from empty at the end of a shift, but not during driving breaks when being part filled during the day when it took forever. All to do with tank pressures & balances. Imagine running a truck that can only realistically be filled from empty, with few filling stations, requiring long breaks at the wrong times. Also, EV range also now exceeds H2 trucks as well.

Seems that operational reality

 

[Bam Bam]

Operational reality

Good term!

I wasn't aware that there were two levels of pressure for hydrogen and you really need the higher one for trucks (but the few filling stations there are operate at the lower pressure).

I expect that the issues with hydrogen can be resolved, but will all that expense be worth it? If the fossil fuel industry were going to pay for it I'd be happy enough, but they only want subsidies for their experiments to save their industry.

 

[Archev]

He tried out the Hydrogen trucks too.

Said that they cost a lot more to buy, several times as much to fuel up and were not good.

Key issue was fueling up times! Slower than EV charging!! Apparently, they fill well from empty at the end of a shift, but not during driving breaks when being part filled during the day when it took forever. All to do with tank pressures & balances. Imagine running a truck that can only realistically be filled from empty, with few filling stations, requiring long breaks at the wrong times. Also, EV range also now exceeds H2 trucks as well.

Seems that operational reality

A week or so back I was told all about how useless folk were finding ev’s by someone who had the new improved and far superior tech. He and his wife each had hybrid cars and they were keen to change to a hydrogen boiler for home heating asap.
His hybrid lasted all month on £30 worth of petrol to do his 10 mile each way commute was his proud boast “you couldn’t do that with your ev”
I just agreed that I could never afford that. He assumed a victory (?) and sits waiting for his hydrogen pipeline to reach his home. I wished him health and happiness while he waited.

 

[siteguru]

£30 of petrol to cover, what? 400 miles in a month? So that's a shade over 13p per mile. If I seriously underestimate my range at 125 miles for 50kWh of electricity, and use 25p per kWh as the cost, that's £12.50 for 125 miles = 10p per mile.

Yeah - no way you're going to get anywhere near his efficiency.

 

[EVsince2016]

£30 of petrol to cover, what? 400 miles in a month? So that's a shade over 13p per mile. If I seriously underestimate my range at 125 miles for 50kWh of electricity, and use 25p per kWh as the cost, that's £12.50 for 125 miles = 10p per mile.

Yeah - no way you're going to get anywhere near his efficiency.

In the summer my EVs 700-800m pcm costs under £1, or around £10 in winter

just saying . . . .

 

[Archev]

£30 of petrol to cover, what? 400 miles in a month? So that's a shade over 13p per mile. If I seriously underestimate my range at 125 miles for 50kWh of electricity, and use 25p per kWh as the cost, that's £12.50 for 125 miles = 10p per mile.

Yeah - no way you're going to get anywhere near his efficiency.

May the lords of electric be praised

 

[siteguru]

In the summer my EVs 700-800m pcm costs under £1, or around £10 in winter

just saying . . . .

I was taking a very negative stance, to show that even then an EV is better than ICE (or hybrid). Of course there'll be people who regularly get way better than that.

 

[Shrink Proof]

My MG5 LR (pre-FL) just passed it's second MOT a few days ago. I've done almost 28,000 miles in 4 years, so about 7,000 per year. Battery SOH was checked at the same time as the MOT (it had a service at the same time) and was recorded as 95%.

It gets charged to 100% the day before a long run, otherwise I just fill it up as and when. The same as I did with previous ICE cars, in fact. Battery degradation is number 9,834 on my current list of worries...