MG4 Range

[Ayoull]

The battery chemistry is a factor as LFP and NMC do behave differently, a contributing factor maybe how the BMS registers the remaining charge and range and on NMC it can use voltage as the indicator of range as on NMC packs the voltage decrease is a quite nice linear drop, where as in LFP the voltage is stable and falls off a cliff at the bottom end of the discharge curve.

This is why balancing on AC regularly is important for LFP batteries else the BMS can't work out where it is charge wise fully. DC rapid charging doesn't balance the battery even if at 100% as DC stops at this point AC doesn't and carries on trickle charging the battery at around 100-300w, to level out cell voltages and prevent premature cell failure due to voltage discrepancy across the pack.

 

[HQW]

Trophy. Just gonna report the only long trip (140 miles) I had on the other day:

Left home at 62%, showing 148 miles. Eco mode, strong regen, A/C set to 23 auto, no other heating on, iPhone plugged in with CarPlay all the way.
Drove 120 miles mostly on an A road with some city (<10 miles). I have a black box fitted so I don't do anything above 70.
Had to find a charger as only 5% left. Charged to 40% and showing 88 miles left.
Drove home (another 20 miles), with 30% and 62 miles left on the display.

So total charge used: 62-5+40-30 = 67%
Total miles traveled: 140 miles.

 

[M101]

I think perhaps my time on this forum is fast coming to an end.

After spending several hours last night reading the posts in this thread which I had not looked at for a few days, a new member micheal1982 came with a question about range, #107 and from then on for almost 90 or so posts it as been nothing but a slanging match of a thread a lot of the time which is nothing short of disgraceful.

Micheal1982, I share your frustration but that is no excuse for some of the very unneeded remarks as you wrote in #111 ( do you work for MG ) what a stupid comment, and to a fellow member who was only trying to put a reasonable answer to, as you put lower down a simple question, and I strongly think you should apologise for that don’t you.
You also offer some nasty comments to other people’s reply’s to your question as well, that you have no right or need to do.

I well understand why Siteguru wrote about losing respect #112 as I said at the start of this post far to much of the slanging at each other as already been done, I know some of it in anger and frustration, and some of it in retaliation, and has gained nothing at all, the purpose of this forum is for members to share there opinions learn from what is posted and help each other where possible that’s what it was set up to do, so I urge all in this thread to cool it down and let’s hope an answer can be found to the issue’s when Micheal1982 returns his car to the dealer for investigation, and then hopefully he we post the outcome of that here.
I myself did a review of my findings on a trip I did last week #99, and I can tell you all I also am very concerned at the range available in the 4 SR I’m no expert on this but I had the MG5 SR over two winters and my son and I have been driving EV or a PHEV for over 5 years but nothing as been as poor on range as the 4SR appears to be please don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, I ran the 5SR in all weathers and over the time I own it and I did over 18500 mile in it also it returned 4.7mpkh and there or pictures on this forum to prove that figure, even in similar temperatures as now.
It would appear to me the biggest change hear is the battery chemistry we know it’s not the same as the 4LR the trophy or MG5 battery chemistry and on range it does not appear to as good I do not know enough about it really to comment but I am as frustrated as Micheal1982 as for the range on my wife’s 4SR it as been abysmal at best.
We have a very long way to go yet in this winter has this is only the start WLTP range figures should be along the lines of xxx in summer and xxx in winter but they or not and all the advertising does is to say in this case up to 218 miles on a full charge biggest con trick yet in my book but they do it and new EV up takers expect it and then when it’s well down we have this disappointment and despondency, which is the case here, this issue does not only apply to MGs but all EVs we are told my sons model X Tesla was also well down in quoted range as well last week.

But please all let us refrain from the slanging matches at each other and try to be more informative, for the good of all. Other wise as I said at the beginning I for one will be gone
Les.

I explained why i asked if they worked for MG because the response was usually in defence of MG and pointing the finger at me and i was not trying to insult anyone, I'm still shocked that my simple question has caused so much of an issue with some people but for the sakes of calming things down, i apologize to everyone who was offended, i wont ask if anyone works for MG again or use too many punctuations

im a new EV owner, with a car that seems to be using much more power than everyone else who has an MG4, and i've had several patronizing responses which basically blamed me for my driving style and knowing nothing about how to drive an EV's.

I will gladly post the response from MG after my car is checked because i want there to be a solution and ideally a fix so that i can actually enjoy some range and not spend all my time worrying about how far it will go next time

 

[tsedge]

The battery chemistry is a factor as LFP and NMC do behave differently, a contributing factor maybe how the BMS registers the remaining charge and range and on NMC it can use voltage as the indicator of range as on NMC packs the voltage decrease is a quite nice linear drop, where as in LFP the voltage is stable and falls off a cliff at the bottom end of the discharge curve.

This is why balancing on AC regularly is important for LFP batteries else the BMS can't work out where it is charge wise fully. DC rapid charging doesn't balance the battery even if at 100% as DC stops at this point AC doesn't and carries on trickle charging the battery at around 100-300w, to level out cell voltages and prevent premature cell failure due to voltage discrepancy across the pack.

Also, I don’t think people know this, but balancing can take many hours, depending on how out of balance the pack is. It is not something that is done in a few minutes.

 

[siteguru]

That's why I leave mine connected for far longer than the expected charge time - I want mine to have the best chance of balancing. (Being on the standard cap rate means it doesn't really matter when/how long I leave the wall box connected).

 

[tsedge]

I explained why i asked if they worked for MG because the response was usually in defence of MG and pointing the finger at me and i was not trying to insult anyone, I'm still shocked that my simple question has caused so much of an issue with some people but for the sakes of calming things down, i apologize to everyone who was offended, i wont ask if anyone works for MG again or use too many punctuations

im a new EV owner, with a car that seems to be using much more power than everyone else who has an MG4, and i've had several patronizing responses which basically blamed me for my driving style and knowing nothing about how to drive an EV's.

I will gladly post the response from MG after my car is checked because i want there to be a solution and ideally a fix so that i can actually enjoy some range and not spend all my time worrying about how far it will go next time

Thanks Michael. I’d also ask you to consider that when new people post we don’t know their experience and knowledge of EVs, so checking the basics is what you’ll often hear first.

Some of that might sound patronising if you already know your stuff but others can’t assume a high level of knowledge because so many people lack experience with EVs.

My apologies if anything I said was received in this way, it wasn’t my intention.

 

[tsedge]

I think perhaps my time on this forum is fast coming to an end.

After spending several hours last night reading the posts in this thread which I had not looked at for a few days, a new member micheal1982 came with a question about range, #107 and from then on for almost 90 or so posts it as been nothing but a slanging match of a thread a lot of the time which is nothing short of disgraceful.

Micheal1982, I share your frustration but that is no excuse for some of the very unneeded remarks as you wrote in #111 ( do you work for MG ) what a stupid comment, and to a fellow member who was only trying to put a reasonable answer to, as you put lower down a simple question, and I strongly think you should apologise for that don’t you.
You also offer some nasty comments to other people’s reply’s to your question as well, that you have no right or need to do.

I well understand why Siteguru wrote about losing respect #112 as I said at the start of this post far to much of the slanging at each other as already been done, I know some of it in anger and frustration, and some of it in retaliation, and has gained nothing at all, the purpose of this forum is for members to share there opinions learn from what is posted and help each other where possible that’s what it was set up to do, so I urge all in this thread to cool it down and let’s hope an answer can be found to the issue’s when Micheal1982 returns his car to the dealer for investigation, and then hopefully he we post the outcome of that here.
I myself did a review of my findings on a trip I did last week #99, and I can tell you all I also am very concerned at the range available in the 4 SR I’m no expert on this but I had the MG5 SR over two winters and my son and I have been driving EV or a PHEV for over 5 years but nothing as been as poor on range as the 4SR appears to be please don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, I ran the 5SR in all weathers and over the time I own it and I did over 18500 mile in it also it returned 4.7mpkh and there or pictures on this forum to prove that figure, even in similar temperatures as now.
It would appear to me the biggest change hear is the battery chemistry we know it’s not the same as the 4LR the trophy or MG5 battery chemistry and on range it does not appear to as good I do not know enough about it really to comment but I am as frustrated as Micheal1982 as for the range on my wife’s 4SR it as been abysmal at best.
We have a very long way to go yet in this winter has this is only the start WLTP range figures should be along the lines of xxx in summer and xxx in winter but they or not and all the advertising does is to say in this case up to 218 miles on a full charge biggest con trick yet in my book but they do it and new EV up takers expect it and then when it’s well down we have this disappointment and despondency, which is the case here, this issue does not only apply to MGs but all EVs we are told my sons model X Tesla was also well down in quoted range as well last week.

But please all let us refrain from the slanging matches at each other and try to be more informative, for the good of all. Other wise as I said at the beginning I for one will be gone
Les.

Please don’t leave Les, you are an indispensible part of this place.

 

[NickHeynes]

The battery chemistry is a factor as LFP and NMC do behave differently, a contributing factor maybe how the BMS registers the remaining charge and range and on NMC it can use voltage as the indicator of range as on NMC packs the voltage decrease is a quite nice linear drop, where as in LFP the voltage is stable and falls off a cliff at the bottom end of the discharge curve.

This is why balancing on AC regularly is important for LFP batteries else the BMS can't work out where it is charge wise fully. DC rapid charging doesn't balance the battery even if at 100% as DC stops at this point AC doesn't and carries on trickle charging the battery at around 100-300w, to level out cell voltages and prevent premature cell failure due to voltage discrepancy across the pack.

Sorry If I'm being really stupid or this has been answered elsewhere. I was led to believe that you should granny charge to 100% In order to balance the battery . Does it balance when charged to 100% on a 7kw charger?

 

[tsedge]

Sorry If I'm being really stupid or this has been answered elsewhere. I was led to believe that you should granny charge to 100% In order to balance the battery . Does it balance when charged to 100% on a 7kw charger?

Yes, granny is not required. It will draw progressively less from the 7kW charger until the car is balanced.

 

[Ayoull]

Sorry If I'm being really stupid or this has been answered elsewhere. I was led to believe that you should granny charge to 100% In order to balance the battery . Does it balance when charged to 100% on a 7kw charger?

Any AC charger is fine Granny, 3.6kW, 7kW, 11kW or 22kW

 

[Ayoull]

This is an example from my own pod point showing the balance after a full charge and the cliff edge is me unplugging the car

 

[Les burrows]

Thank you for the above Micheal1982 at #203.
Please do let us know what happens at you dealers who is that by the way?.
If you would rather not answer that question I understand.
I see from your avatar that your quite new on the forum so welcome, also your from my neck of the woods, and as you say a new EV owner as well, I somehow guessed you might be.
And so after spending a good chunk of hard earned money to purchase the car you have a right to complain if you are disappointed, as I said before I also am concerned about what the heck is going on here with my wife’s car 4SR and I have had a fair bit of time driving an EV now so had some idea what to expect.

I have learnt in my time driving EVs that no to cars are alike all of the time, I said back up thread #67 I am not getting anything like the figures that Stuart Thomas got on has range test in his video at #66 and I was hoping I might do better when I traveled up to the lakes last week, but nothing anywhere near and I was also travelling a fair bit slower to boot which should help with range.

It might well be there’s a problem with some vehicles and not others has in the oil leak thread, but funny thing is it’s not just the SESR, has a few that have the Trophy Model have also commented on poor range so for now do you best to enjoy the car until you get it looked at and do give us that feedback please.
Thank you.
Les

 

[Samoyed]

There seems to be a massive influx of people buying EVs on the basis that “it’ll definitely do 280 miles 365 days a year” and they drive it like their old ICE car and only get 100 miles out of the battery. I wish dealers were more open with this kind of thing and said it depends on weather, driving style, heating etc rather than just selling these cars Willy nilly.

Yes, but remember the long range model is largely advertised and sold as a 280 mile range car and only if you look carefully at the small print or ask the specific question about range to the dealer is the truth revealed.
New buyers may not know about battery performance in various types of weather.

 

[jon0881]

Adding the sub par charge speeds comparing to the LR im regreting my decision with the SR. Tesla LFP drivers are not complaining about this amound of drop. I do however feel its a BMS issue right now as today its a lot better. Im going to hold fire until ive dont a couple of balance charges. The computer cannot guess, it works on facts and according to the statistics of the pack the figures dont add up. A 30% drop in range even 50% ok but based on yesterdays performance its a 78% drop from the WLTP. if the m/kwh matched the usage (0.88m/kwh in my case) the i would say the car knows whats going on.

 

[Les burrows]

Also, I don’t think people know this, but balancing can take many hours, depending on how out of balance the pack is. It is not something that is done in a few minutes.

I agree tsedge but what I have found so far is it takes far far less time than my 5 did for example I have solar PV and a Zappi I never use the solar only setting on the Zappi Eco ++ I always use Eco+ The reasons for which are well documented on this forum stat this time of year very little is coming from solar so generally the car is charging at around 1.4kw now on the 5 once it was at 100% or there abouts the Zappi would feed in at around 300 watts for at least 1/2 hours doing that balancing I allways did this around every 4/6 weeks as per the hand book for the 5 sometimes one more in between if I needed 100% for a trip the next day.

Now same charging method as above but for the MG4 SESR when this get to 100% the Zappi again drops to around 300watts but now for only around 15-30 minutes picture of Zappi screen below you will notice only 12kw have been put in but tha is from midnight to 09:30 the charge was started around 15:00 the day before so around 26/28 kw have been put in nice and slowly

That's why I leave mine connected for far longer than the expected charge time - I want mine to have the best chance of balancing. (Being on the standard cap rate means it doesn't really matter when/how long I leave the wall box connected).

And Ayoull
Am the same as you siteguru no time of use tariffs so I to do it anytime no matter we have had the car about six weeks now and this balance charging patten has been done 3/4 times always the same more or less at the moment I am trying to run the charge down much lower and then I am going to charge it at a full 7.4 kw and see what that does if anything up to now I don’t think the cars been below about 40% before it been put on charge I will report on that in a few days as you can see ayoull Zappi read out is a lot different from yours
Les

 

[Ayoull]

I agree tsedge but what I have found so far is it takes far far less time than my 5 did for example I have solar PV and a Zappi I never use the solar only setting on the Zappi Eco ++ I always use Eco+ The reasons for which are well documented on this forum stat this time of year very little is coming from solar so generally the car is charging at around 1.4kw now on the 5 once it was at 100% or there abouts the Zappi would feed in at around 300 watts for at least 1/2 hours doing that balancing I allways did this around every 4/6 weeks as per the hand book for the 5 sometimes one more in between if I needed 100% for a trip the next day.

Now same charging method as above but for the MG4 SESR when this get to 100% the Zappi again drops to around 300watts but now for only around 15-30 minutes picture of Zappi screen below you will notice only 12kw have been put in but tha is from midnight to 09:30 the charge was started around 15:00 the day before so around 26/28 kw have been put in nice and slowly
View attachment 13675

And Ayoull
Am the same as you siteguru no time of use tariffs so I to do it anytime no matter we have had the car about six weeks now and this balance charging patten has been done 3/4 times always the same more or less at the moment I am trying to run the charge down much lower and then I am going to charge it at a full 7.4 kw and see what that does if anything up to now I don’t think the cars been below about 40% before it been put on charge I will report on that in a few days as you can see ayoull Zappi read out is a lot different from yours
Les

I haven't gotten my MG4 yet this is the charge curve from our MG ZS EV MK1 on a Pod Point, we charge at any time or day as we're only paying 12p a unit any time of day as tied into a long term tarriff just before it all went mad.

Edit: worth mentioning ours is kWh put into the battery opposed to the kW rating at a point in time

 

[Les burrows]

I haven't gotten my MG4 yet this is the charge curve from our MG ZS EV MK1 on a Pod Point, we charge at any time or day as we're only paying 12p a unit any time of day as tied into a long term tarriff just before it all went mad.

Edit: worth mentioning ours is kWh put into the battery opposed to the kW rating at a point in time

Yeh I think mines the same KWh.
BUT WOW 12p a unit that being per kw must be the cheapest in the world that is not a time of use tariff surely lucky lucky man unbelievable in this day and age I thought I had a good deal at 20p enjoy while it last.
Les.

Edit I have just noticed your Avatar picture up the power lines are you stealing it.
LOL

 

[Ayoull]

Yeh I think mines the same KWh.
BUT WOW 12p a unit that being per kw must be the cheapest in the world that is not a time of use tariff surely lucky lucky man unbelievable in this day and age I thought I had a good deal at 20p enjoy while it last.
Les.

Was very lucky with when I tied us in, got that rate until autumn 2023, your graph at the top is showing the kW at the point in time opposed to total kWh passed, but the bottom bar is the total kWh passed to the battery.

Where as my graph is total charge passed to the car

 

[Noblapod]

Just to put things in perspective. Mg4 sesr.
130 mile journey 2 weeks ago with 31% left and showed 3.7 miles/kwh.
Yesterday morning after an overnight temperature of minus 10.7c at Andrews field weather station about 5 minutes away from me.
10 minutes pre conditioning which struggled with 4 inches of frozen snow particularly around the wiper blades, shafts etc so had to spend another 10 minutes with car turned on before everything was clear enough to drive.
Then drove 8 miles and left car for 3 hours followed by 4 mile drive and car then left for 2 hours. Finally 12 miles home in dark. Acc was on at 23 degrees all the time I was driving. A total of 24 miles and 23% battery used. On that basis a real range of 100 miles. I reckon that was ok considering the circumstances.
Therefore about 1% per mile at present in really cold conditions, I can live with that knowing it can only get better.
All the best...Chris.

 

[john andersen]

have a thought for this poor fellar

he is only getting 2.6miles pr kwh in a kona

I was expecting it to get bad, but THIS bad?

I've been getting crazy results, from 1.8mi/kWh to an average of 2.66 It's mainly motorway miles, 80 a day and charging for 5 hours overnight (sometimes not replacing the electricity used for the 80 miles) I was expecting poor winter range, but this winter seems a lot worse than last.

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