Mg4 SR battery capacity

[Sinbad]

being forced to drive under the speed limit to eek out a few extra miles seems like a step backwards to me.

Maybe this will be my first and last EV because they clearly have not been engineered for the real world.

The exact same principle applies to ICE vehicles though. I was able to keep my 1999 ML 320 mercedes at a long term average under 10l/100km by never exceeding 100km/h on long journeys. As soon as I started going 120-130km/h the consumption went through the roof.

 

[tsedge]

being forced to drive under the speed limit to eek out a few extra miles seems like a step backwards to me.

Maybe this will be my first and last EV because they clearly have not been engineered for the real world.

It is where the current technology has reached. The high efficiency of EVs comes with the rub that they are more sensitive to aerodynamics, so bigger difference on range if you drive slower.

Nobody is forcing you to have one.

 

[M101]

Yup aero drag increases as the square of speed - so double the speed = 4x the aero drag.

If I understand the maths correctly (and it's early and I'm tired!) then the increase in power required to go at 60 compared to 70mph is 36%, but the time reduction is 16%

This is not my style of driving and it never will be, There is nothing more infuriating that people constantly driving on an economy run.
MIddle lane hoggers on the motoraway doing 50mph are becoming far

The exact same principle applies to ICE vehicles though. I was able to keep my 1999 ML 320 mercedes at a long term average under 10l/100km by never exceeding 100km/h on long journeys. As soon as I started going 120-130km/h the consumption went through the roof.

Thats got to be expected in a 2.5 ton beast like that, my bmw 520d would happily sit at 90mph on the motorway and get very good fuel economy.
I dont hate my new car, i just think the range is very poor for the price paid and if it means the only way to get a decent range is by driving everywhere super slow, super careful and keeping the cabin ice cold then to me this is a huge step backwards in car ownership

 

[tsedge]

This is not my style of driving and it never will be, There is nothing more infuriating that people constantly driving on an economy run.
MIddle lane hoggers on the motoraway doing 50mph are becoming far

Thats got to be expected in a 2.5 ton beast like that, my bmw 520d would happily sit at 90mph on the motorway and get very good fuel economy.
I dont hate my new car, i just think the range is very poor for the price paid and if it means the only way to get a decent range is by driving everywhere super slow, super careful and keeping the cabin ice cold then to me this is a huge step backwards in car ownership

There’s nothing wrong with driving at 50mph on a motorway, although if you are well below the speed of the other traffic, you can be prosecuted for careless driving.

There’s no excuse for middle lane hogging, the two right lanes are for overtaking only.

It is illegal to drive at 90mph.

 

[Sinbad]

This is not my style of driving and it never will be, There is nothing more infuriating that people constantly driving on an economy run.
MIddle lane hoggers on the motoraway doing 50mph are becoming far

Thats got to be expected in a 2.5 ton beast like that, my bmw 520d would happily sit at 90mph on the motorway and get very good fuel economy.
I dont hate my new car, i just think the range is very poor for the price paid and if it means the only way to get a decent range is by driving everywhere super slow, super careful and keeping the cabin ice cold then to me this is a huge step backwards in car ownership

The weight isn't the issue for freeway driving, it's the size and the drag coefficient (how streamlined it is). Weight comes into it when you're accelerating and decelerating a lot.

EV battery technology does still have a long way to go, unfortunately. It's reached a point where it's palatable but it's definitely not ideal yet. Nowhere near the energy density of diesel or petrol. Manufacturers can easily put larger capacity batteries in, but then the car gets really heavy. It's a tradeoff...

 

[the briggie]

This all stems from a raised awareness of energy usage in comparison to ice vehicles in my opinion. Both have inefficiencies but it is easier to stick more fuel in than wait at a charger. Cost of fuel usage in ICE is not at the forefront of some peoples mind whereas EV gives more focus. Not a criticism of either as most modern ICE cars have great MPG and any lost heat is put back into car heating etc.

Now a lot of EV incentives have been removed the playing field is tilted back towards traditional/Hybrid in making a choice of vehicles imo.

Great to have choices that allow you to get what suits your lifestyle, budget and motoring needs at this moment in time...but the future

 

[tsedge]

This all stems from a raised awareness of energy usage in comparison to ice vehicles in my opinion. Both have inefficiencies but it is easier to stick more fuel in than wait at a charger. Cost of fuel usage in ICE is not at the forefront of some peoples mind whereas EV gives more focus. Not a criticism of either as most modern ICE cars have great MPG and any lost heat is put back into car heating etc.

Now a lot of EV incentives have been removed the playing field is tilted back towards traditional/Hybrid in making a choice of vehicles imo.

Great to have choices that allow you to get what suits your lifestyle, budget and motoring needs at this moment in time...but the future

Exactly, people are effectively saying “I’d rather pay a huge amount for fuel than get there slightly slower”. It is a trade off, not simply a downside of EVs.

 

[Kithmo]

being forced to drive under the speed limit to eek out a few extra miles seems like a step backwards to me.

Maybe this will be my first and last EV because they clearly have not been engineered for the real world.

Depends on you usage scenario, but TBH I do think EVs are being over hyped up by manufacturers and newcomers are being sucked in to the hype and nobody is telling them the truth.
The only way to see if an full EV is right for you is to visit forums like this one and join groups on social media etc. and see the real world range and other specifications and see if it suits your requirements.
My 130 mile range in Winter,160 mile range in Summer, 2020 ZS is perfect for my requirements of a daily 6 mile round urban trip, which would be less suitable for someone who does a long commute every day.

 

[turntoport]

being forced to drive under the speed limit to eek out a few extra miles seems like a step backwards to me.

Maybe this will be my first and last EV because they clearly have not been engineered for the real world.

Michael; perhaps you're not old enough to have driven on the uk's motorways when the blanket speed limit was 50 mph ! That was proper 'fun'. And I recall in '82 getting a ticket for doing 54 (yep, 4 over) on a US highway; the patrolman was not amused, especially when we told him that US miles are shorter than english ones, so causing the error. Autobahn driving is faster - but proper scary, sometimes. A lot of perception relativity, maybe.
Perhaps we might bear-in-mind that the true cost of madly burning the highest energy-density fuel commonly available ('diesel/petrol') is screwing our grandkids futures. Where i live is 40 miles from a motorway so 70 doesn't get hit often, and as Ayoull mentioned, seeing impatient wannabe racers on the backroads seeming intent on suicide/manslaughter is an increasingly common occurrence. How do we deal with this - flying cars (will reduce the population a bit if we let most drivers take charge)? Wait for better electrical batteries? Buy H2 cars? At least a hybrid will be 10% -ish more fuel efficient, but at what cost to the longevity of the engine, which needs to do a load of 'cold-starts' to charge the battery? (we had one, they do). And a larger phev: well, if the battery range is enough for most usage, then it's dragging around a half-ton or so of ice for, largely, no purpose. Yeah, it's a conundrum.

Selling id3; ordered SE 64kWh; not sure whether the 'trophy' extras are worth the £3k...?
(Someone please tell me); surely the trophy split rear 'spoiler' isn't doing the -11 mile damage to the range?? If so, lol; can it be replaced with the standard item?

 

[Ian Key]

My current car is a Ford Focus 2.0l diesel which supposedly has a combined 56 mpg with a fuel tank capacity of 13.2 gallons. In theory I should get a range of 739 miles.
In reality I get 35mpg which gives a range of 462 miles and if I do a steady 60 the range will go up to 528 miles.
My point is that the manufacturers figures for any vehicle bear no resemblance to those of the real world it's just that ICE cars are quick and easy to refuel so you tend not to notice their inefficiency.

 

[M101]

There’s nothing wrong with driving at 50mph on a motorway, although if you are well below the speed of the other traffic, you can be prosecuted for careless driving.

There’s no excuse for middle lane hogging, the two right lanes are for overtaking only.

It is illegal to drive at 90mph.

There is everything wrong with driving at 20 mph under the speed limit unless you are driving a speed restricted truck and most people on the motorways in this country cant drive for sh*t and have no idea about how to use the lanes correctly.

Its not illegal to do 90mph on the German autobahns, but my car would still get great MPG even at high speeds.

Michael; perhaps you're not old enough to have driven on the uk's motorways when the blanket speed limit was 50 mph ! That was proper 'fun'. And I recall in '82 getting a ticket for doing 54 (yep, 4 over) on a US highway; the patrolman was not amused, especially when we told him that US miles are shorter than english ones, so causing the error. Autobahn driving is faster - but proper scary, sometimes. A lot of perception relativity, maybe.
Perhaps we might bear-in-mind that the true cost of madly burning the highest energy-density fuel commonly available ('diesel/petrol') is screwing our grandkids futures. Where i live is 40 miles from a motorway so 70 doesn't get hit often, and as Ayoull mentioned, seeing impatient wannabe racers on the backroads seeming intent on suicide/manslaughter is an increasingly common occurrence. How do we deal with this - flying cars (will reduce the population a bit if we let most drivers take charge)? Wait for better electrical batteries? Buy H2 cars? At least a hybrid will be 10% -ish more fuel efficient, but at what cost to the longevity of the engine, which needs to do a load of 'cold-starts' to charge the battery? (we had one, they do). And a larger phev: well, if the battery range is enough for most usage, then it's dragging around a half-ton or so of ice for, largely, no purpose. Yeah, it's a conundrum.

Selling id3; ordered SE 64kWh; not sure whether the 'trophy' extras are worth the £3k...?
(Someone please tell me); surely the trophy split rear 'spoiler' isn't doing the -11 mile damage to the range?? If so, lol; can it be replaced with the standard item?

I was born in 1982 so no im not old enough to remember those times, im also not old enough to remember leaches and chloroform being used by doctors or the ancient Egyptians cutting through people's skulls to relieve a headache and i also wouldn't support going back to those kinds of conditions either.

70mph is not too fast. Modern cars are more than capable of driving safely at much faster speeds, the one thing holing that back is TERRIBLE driving standards and people driving excessively slow
The highway code is so out of date that most cars will stop in 1/4 of the claimed stopping distances

I just wish EV's were geared/engineered so that they were very efficient at 30, 40 50 60 and 70 mph.
I'd happily trade some acceleration for more high speed efficiency but i will never trade speed for it because i like to think we are moving forward as a species not going back to how things were pre WW2

There isn't a single hydrogen fuel station anywhere near me and there are only and small number in the UK mostly around London so thats a dead technology before it ever took off

 

[tsedge]

There is everything wrong with driving at 20 mph under the speed limit unless you are driving a speed restricted truck and most people on the motorways in this country cant drive for sh*t and have no idea about how to use the lanes correctly.

Its not illegal to do 90mph on the German autobahns, but my car would still get great MPG even at high speeds.

Lol! It is a LIMIT not the required speed! I am with you though on poor driving.

Yes, yes, living in Lancashire I am sure you are constantly on the autobahns. Is Germany the nearest place you can use to justify your flagrant law breaking?

I just wish EV's were geared/engineered so that they were very efficient at 30, 40 50 60 and 70 mph.

It isn’t gearing that is the problem, it is aerodynamics.

 

[M101]

Lol! It is a LIMIT not the required speed! I am with you though on poor driving.

Yes, yes, living in Lancashire I am sure you are constantly on the autobahns. Is Germany the nearest place you can use to justify your flagrant law breaking?


It isn’t gearing that is the problem, it is aerodynamics.

Im more of a limit guy than being a hated guy by everyone around me. In my mind people who choose to drive slow, especially on single track roads and force all other drivers around them to drive at their speed while also making people very inpatient to the point where they overtake where possible and make a crash more likely to happen, these people would be better off taking the train.

So do you think people from Lancashire are not allowed to drive their cars in Europe? or they dont go on holiday???????
I actually drove all the way to Hungary and went through France, Belgium, Germany and Austria and all of these countries have higher motorway speeds than the Uk, especially Germany and my car got decent MPG at all speeds despite its boxy aerodynamics

I think if EV's had a gearbox they would be more efficient at higher speeds

 

[NoSkill]

Gearing won't make any difference whatsoever, the 'issue' is purely the energy density of the batteries.

Saying that you originally mentioned seeing a 'range' (presumably from the 'guessometer') of 120-130, based off doing a 9 mile trip to work, and I'm assuming that you've got the SR so that works out at around a 2.6m/kw number.

That number is going to be affected by the shortness of the trip, for things like the heater but also battery temperature, and you should expect to get significantly better consumption on a longer trip.

For what it's worth I recently had an extended test drive where I did 58.9 miles of mixed A-road and Motorway, average speed of 40mph (70mph on cruise for the motorway, none of this slow stuff I wasn't hanging around on the other roads either and was in the ~2.8m/kw to start with) and got 3.7m/kw. This was a Trophy so active grill and stuff but shouldn't make too much difference really, probably more so was it was quite a pleasant day before the cold came in so not too much heater usage.

Is the range limited, sure, but it's not as bad (for long trips) as you're currently experiencing doing a short commute.

 

[tsedge]

Im more of a limit guy than being a hated guy by everyone around me. In my mind people who choose to drive slow, especially on single track roads and force all other drivers around them to drive at their speed while also making people very inpatient to the point where they overtake where possible and make a crash more likely to happen, these people would be better off taking the train.

You are supposed to drive on single carriageway roads according to the conditions. That could be at or well below the speed limit, it is an individual judgement. If there’s a long queue behind you, it is courteous to pull over every few miles and let them past you.

On dual carriageways and motorways, as there are overtaking lanes, there is no problem driving under the limit because people can pass you. If you are well below the limit then it could be considered careless driving due to the speed differential.

People who drive at 90 are creating not only a 20mph differential to the majority at the limit, but a 40mph differential to slower traffic. This is why they are dangerous.

Also, 90mph people contribute to the lane hogging problem because they suddenly appear behind someone overtaking a little faster than the inside lane and sit on their bumper, flashing lights and indicating, which scares people, provokes punishment responses, including the extremely dangerous brake testing.

If you are only driving at 70mph in the UK, then dropping to 60 or even 65 won’t add much to your journey and will give you much better range. Why don’t you try it?

So do you think people from Lancashire are not allowed to drive their cars in Europe? or they dont go on holiday???????
I actually drove all the way to Hungary and went through France, Belgium, Germany and Austria and all of these countries have higher motorway speeds than the Uk, especially Germany and my car got decent MPG at all speeds despite its boxy aerodynamics

You are welcome to drive wherever you like. I think people from the UK shouldn’t argue that EVs sold in their market should be able to do 90mph efficiently.

I think if EV's had a gearbox they would be more efficient at higher speeds

It really isn’t about gearing. I don’t think you understand how EV efficiency works.

 

[Ayoull]

I think if EV's had a gearbox they would be more efficient at higher speeds

A gearbox would actually reduce efficiency as its another moving part to drive

 

[BugEyed]

my car would still get great MPG even at high speeds.

You clearly have never measured it just over the distance covered at 90 MPH. You are unlikely to have got 25mpg in a petrol car or 30mpg in a diesel car. If you think that level of pollution is acceptable then we will have to agree to differ.

I think if EV's had a gearbox they would be more efficient at higher speeds

Sort of. EVs are designed as a compromise between acceleration and high speed efficiency. Adding a gearbox allows you to have both, as does two different motor/reduction gearbox combinations front to rear. The main example of the former is the Taycan Turbo which has a gearbox on the front motor only, the latter is more common but an example are all the twin motor Tesla. The reason the changing gearbox option is less common is the marginal benefit to the cost and weight, whereas the different set up front to rear is the changing requirements for power front to rear as speed changes.