MG4, Zappi and Octopus Intelligent Go

[tsedge]

This tariff was created to help the ESO balance the grid and frequency, to run alongside Go. You get more hours in payback for you agreeing to having movable intervals. The reason Octopus can afford to give you more hours is because they are able to chop and change power demand en-masse quickly, and hence get paid for this quick turnaround flexibility.

I'm aware of their goals in creating the tariff.

If you don't like the tariff then you should move to Go which doesn't move the intervals. If you want the extra hours you have to effectively put up with it, as that's the whole reason the tariff exists.

No thanks. My usage is in line with the Ts&Cs.

 

[gary333]

I'm aware of their goals in creating the tariff.

No thanks. My usage is in line with the Ts&Cs.

Who cares about T&C's, totally irrelevant to the point i was making. It was you who referenced the effect on batteries and inverters.

If you want to stop the "wear and tear" your only option is to move tariffs. If you want to enjoy the benefits of IOG then you have to accept their way of operating the charging cycle. By agreeing to IOG you agreed to allow Octopus to manage the charge however they see fit. As there are many hotspots in the night where power capacity needs smoothing, they (Octopus) are going to adjust the charging to help the grid (and make money from it).

 

[dsr]

The stop/start nature of the charging session isn't ideal for an EV battery pack? And may in fact cause the car to opt to not start charging again?

I wondered if it could be something to do with the stop/go charging - myenergi recording everything and the Octopus monitor missing miniscule amounts of charge.

 

[LenEV2016]

I wondered if it could be something to do with the stop/go charging - myenergi recording everything and the Octopus monitor missing miniscule amounts of charge.

I think MGs go to sleep and cars that don't share their api's seem to have the issue

My relative has a zappi and a Mégane etech and has zero issues with IOG

 

[tsedge]

I think MGs go to sleep and cars that don't share their api's seem to have the issue

My car only goes to sleep if left for a long time. Occasionally if it is plugged in too early in the day it won't charge at night, but an unlock and lock from the remote fixes this.

My relative has a zappi and a Mégane etech and has zero issues with IOG

My MG4 charges 100% reliably via my Zappi's schedules. Via IOG controlling the Zappi is less reliable (usually works but not always fully).

 

[tsedge]

Who cares about T&C's, totally irrelevant to the point i was making. It was you who referenced the effect on batteries and inverters.

The Ts&Cs are relevant because they dictate what you can and can't do if you are on IOG.

If you want to stop the "wear and tear" your only option is to move tariffs. If you want to enjoy the benefits of IOG then you have to accept their way of operating the charging cycle. By agreeing to IOG you agreed to allow Octopus to manage the charge however they see fit. As there are many hotspots in the night where power capacity needs smoothing, they (Octopus) are going to adjust the charging to help the grid (and make money from it).

This is simply incorrect.

IOG is TWO products in one:
1) A 6hr low-price night tariff, with higher day-rate charges.
2) An intelligent component that allows car charging through specific time slots that can increase your low-price night tariff beyond those 6 hours, depending on how Octopus schedule the slots.

It is simply not just product (2) - because it if was, there'd be NO NEED for a fixed low-tariff period every night. Everything would be scheduled slots. Octopus make their money on BOTH aspects, not merely the intelligent part.

I take advantage of (1) to charge my car via my Zappi on a reliable low-price schedule and I have no fragmented charges when I do.

My obligation, according to the Ts&Cs, is to connect to IOG once a month via (2) and do a car charge under its control. It does not say I cannot charge my car via (1) - I have checked this multiple times, including just now looking at the very latest Ts&Cs. So one of my charges each month involves these fragmented time slots.

When I first joined IOG, this slot fragmentation wasn't a thing. They changed how it worked suddenly and it became more of a problem and as some have commented fragmentation has now become ridiculous.

I'll continue to use their product in this way, despite your protestations, until either something better comes along or they change the product (which they are free to do at any time, but haven't).

IOG seems to be in perpetual beta, so I have my doubts it will last long-term: their strategy of picking cheaper slots only works in any case if it involves a small number of people, as soon as it has wide adoption it becomes self-defeating as the cheap slots will vanish due to the numbers competing for them.

 

[LenEV2016]

My car only goes to sleep if left for a long time. Occasionally if it is plugged in too early in the day it won't charge at night, but an unlock and lock from the remote fixes this.

My MG4 charges 100% reliably via my Zappi's schedules. Via IOG controlling the Zappi is less reliable (usually works but not always fully).

Yeah that's the bit I mean octopus controlling everything

 

[tsedge]

Worth also saying in the Ts&Cs, Octopus explicitly disclaim any liability due to damage causes by the slots and their fragmentation, mentioning any wear and tear caused is at the user's own risk.

 

[LenEV2016]

Worth also saying in the Ts&Cs, Octopus explicitly disclaim any liability due to damage causes by the slots and their fragmentation, mentioning any wear and tear caused is at the user's own risk.

Not overly bothered myself as I will replace my cars long before that, will be a consideration if I am keeping one long term

 

[tsedge]

Indeed. It may not be significant problem - I've no idea if it is or it isn't - but I am concerned that we don't know what all that repeated switching on and off of high loads might do to a vehicle.

Also, as they get better at managing loads, they might well fragment further with even smaller periods on and off.

 

[LenEV2016]

Watching my ohme app it appears they start of gentle and sometimes it ramps up to the 7kw, other times it sits at 1. Odds, 3/4.odds etc, depending on the length of the slot

 

[gary333]

The Ts&Cs are relevant because they dictate what you can and can't do if you are on IOG.

This is simply incorrect.

IOG is TWO products in one:
1) A 6hr low-price night tariff, with higher day-rate charges.
2) An intelligent component that allows car charging through specific time slots that can increase your low-price night tariff beyond those 6 hours, depending on how Octopus schedule the slots.

It is simply not just product (2) - because it if was, there'd be NO NEED for a fixed low-tariff period every night. Everything would be scheduled slots. Octopus make their money on BOTH aspects, not merely the intelligent part.

I take advantage of (1) to charge my car via my Zappi on a reliable low-price schedule and I have no fragmented charges when I do.

My obligation, according to the Ts&Cs, is to connect to IOG once a month via (2) and do a car charge under its control. It does not say I cannot charge my car via (1) - I have checked this multiple times, including just now looking at the very latest Ts&Cs. So one of my charges each month involves these fragmented time slots.

When I first joined IOG, this slot fragmentation wasn't a thing. They changed how it worked suddenly and it became more of a problem and as some have commented fragmentation has now become ridiculous.

I'll continue to use their product in this way, despite your protestations, until either something better comes along or they change the product (which they are free to do at any time, but haven't).

IOG seems to be in perpetual beta, so I have my doubts it will last long-term: their strategy of picking cheaper slots only works in any case if it involves a small number of people, as soon as it has wide adoption it becomes self-defeating as the cheap slots will vanish due to the numbers competing for them.

My comments were solely in relation to people (including you) moaning that IOG will cause smaller intervals to be utilised inside and outside of the low rate period, and how that could potentially cause wear and tear. I don't care how you, or others use the tariff specifically. I was simply pointing out those of you who want/choose Octopus Intelligent have to accept that this behaviour is part and parcel of the tariff, and moaning is futile as it's intentional design.

Now, from reading the history of this thread I can now see you have found a quirk in your Zappi setup that allows you to do something that isn't possible with Ohme chargers (or at least mine). There's no option to facilitate timed charges and circumvent the Octopus integration. In theory this clearly isn't in the spirit of what Octopus want users to do, and isn't something that Ohme users can do, which is presumably to stop this behaviour. However, that's Octopus' problem I'm not here to gate keep what you do, couldn't give a monkeys'.

My point was narrow in nature that if you (and anyone else reading this) doesn't/didn't want this behaviour then octopus do indeed make it clear it's wasn't the tariff to choose. Hence, you can't moan after the event of signing up saying they are "going to create wear and tear on my car".

 

[tsedge]

My comments were solely in relation to people (including you) moaning that IOG will cause smaller intervals to be utilised inside and outside of the low rate period, and how that could potentially cause wear and tear. I don't care how you, or others use the tariff specifically. I was simply pointing out those of you who want/choose Octopus Intelligent have to accept that this behaviour is part and parcel of the tariff, and moaning is futile as it's intentional design.

It is intentional design for part (2) of the product, not for part (1): the core 6 hrs.

Now, from reading the history of this thread I can now see you have found a quirk in your Zappi setup that allows you to do something that isn't possible with Ohme chargers (or at least mine). There's no option to facilitate timed charges and circumvent the Octopus integration. In theory this clearly isn't in the spirit of what Octopus want users to do, and isn't something that Ohme users can do, which is presumably to stop this behaviour. However, that's Octopus' problem I'm not here to gate keep what you do, couldn't give a monkeys'.

I'm not circumventing anything. I disconnect IOG from my Zappi and just use its in built features to do scheduled EV charges during the core 6hrs.

I am only required to have it connected to IOG every 30 days.

My point was narrow in nature that if you (and anyone else reading this) doesn't/didn't want this behaviour then octopus do indeed make it clear it's wasn't the tariff to choose.

That is fair enough for part (2) of the product, but it is still two products in one. If Octopus want it to just be for intelligent use they should remove the core hours.

Hence, you can't moan after the event of signing up saying they are "going to create wear and tear on my car".

I can moan and I have every reason to when they changed this behaviour long AFTER I went on the tarrif.

Btw, what is all this about "not moaning" - this is an internet car forum, isn't it? Surely that's one of primary usages of a forum like this?!