Poor charging experience

My local carpark had 8 Blink 7kw chargers installed back in April. They raised the price to 65p Kw/Hr (just reduced to 55p) but kept the same 3 hour max parking time and the parking charge of £2.20. As there are other cheaper chargers in other carparks close by (28p Kw/Hr) I have not seen one car in those chargers. Correction there was one the other day but it was an ICE merc.

Someday our representaives will realise if they want to encourge the adoption of EVs they should at least consult with those with knowledge about what the whole EV thing is and what stupid, no longer relevant, rules need to be modernised. It will happen but only when our representaives actually experience driving and using EVs.
Where I am there are 2-4 7kW sockets in each of 3 car parks, one of which is pay & display, the others are free.
The price of the chargers in the P&D car park is lower than the others by just enough to offset the parking fee.
 
That's true, but why would you stay longer when you've finished shopping anyway? Why make the limit on the chargers less than the limit on parking at Tesco itself? If they've installed too few chargers for the demand, they need to install more.
The ones I'm thinking of, the limit on the chargers is the limit on the parking. i.e. you won't get fined by PodPoint, you'll get fined by whoever runs the Tesco car park.
 
I have seen a similar sign at the CPS chargers in Penicuik, although I didn't memorise it because it's only nine miles from home and there is zero chance I'll need an AC charge there. I remember that it seemed designed to keep cars moving on during the day when people shopping might want the spaces, but to allow residents nearby to charge overnight. That's well thought through.
Yes, it's sensible to allow residents to charge overnight like that. I'm not sure that the 4 hour limit will keep cars moving on that much in the day as two cars could occupy a charger for 8 hours of the day. I doubt that often happens as people tend to move on more frequently than that. Having said that, because these chargers are near a beach and the car park can become full, it could! I suppose it stops someone hogging the charger all day.

Not so kindly, they've upped the cost from 25p/kWh any time to 35p/kWh during most of the time but now with a peak cost of 45p/kWh for any charges started between 4pm and 8pm.

But a £40 fine for staying more than four hours in a city centre car park where the chargers are actually underutilised is bonkers. That fine applies all night too. I arrived at 6.30, but hung around until 6.45 before I dared start the charge. During that time someone else connected, remarking that he was OK as he only needed three hours. I got back at about 10.30. I think there was another car there by then. But I had to pass on having dinner, because if I'd accepted that invitation it would have taken me well over the four hours. Tough luck, restaurant.
That's not good. It's an unreasonable amount of time to allow given that it's the evening.
 
The Blink type 2 chargers outside my friend's house are in free, unrestricted parking spaces - it's a small car park next to a park where people walk their dogs and play ball games with their children. The EV charging points are often ICEd up and nobody is fining the ICE car owners for blocking the chargers. (It's possible the owners of these cars don't realise what they're doing, because there's nothing painted on the tarmac of the parking bays, only a small sign a bit above eye level.)

The car park is empty overnight, when the dog-walkers and the tennis players have gone home. There is zero reason why someone couldn't charge overnight there. There is also zero reason why they couldn't charge as long as they like during the day, because there's nothing to prevent an ICE car sitting in the space all day (or the EV driver simply unplugging the car and walking away, leaving it where it is).

My friend says she hardly ever sees EVs charging there (though she did see a white MG4 a week or two before I arrived). I didn't see another EV in all the three days I stayed with her. It's as if the operators have imagined EVs queueing up to get on a charger, but it's not happening. People living nearby with EVs have wall boxes. People coming to the park probably have wall boxes too. It's a facility for occasional use, with drivers discouraged by the very high price.

But here I am, a visitor staying at a house without a wall box, arriving after a journey of 190 miles, willing to pay their extortionate price for the convenience. They should be cherishing me, the only EV to want their electricity that week as far as I know. Instead, they limit me to four hours.

That's not good. It's an unreasonable amount of time to allow given that it's the evening.

The chargers used to be free to use, and maybe that's the reason for the time limit. But frankly I doubt they had hordes of EVs even at that time due to the cost of the parking itself.

The car park is very expensive during the day, as it's right next to all the big offices and department stores. If a driver is prepared to pay these prices, what's the point in limiting his time on an EV charger? If the chargers are over-subscribed, install more! (But they're not.)

In the evening there is a flat-rate charge, £4 to stay as long as you like from 6 pm until 8 am. This is great for the nearby theatres (the Theatre Royal and the Athenaeum) and all the fancy eateries in the surrounding streets. Mostly you could probably go to a performance and get back to your car within four hours - I managed it when the performance was Carmen. But if they put on a Wagner opera for example, it's going to be a case of running out to unplug the car during one of the intervals. Same if you fancy a pre-theatre meal.

I mean, £40 the second you click over the four-hour mark? What are they punishing people for?

Fortunately my usual trip to that car park is only 100 miles round trip, so I won't normally need to charge there. Most people are probably coming into town from closer than that, which is probably why the chargers are so little used. But I had to use them one day because I had a very tight schedule and was driving on to stay in a hotel on the coast that evening. And in the winter, if the weather is bad, I might feel safer in an SR getting some charge while I'm there. But they're not making it easy for me.

I've actually emailed ChargePlace Scotland about the £40 fines, citing as an example longer operas at the nearby Theatre Royal, and even when there is a shorter performance, wanting to have a meal before the opera. I've asked them why they want to force people to fret about time, and maybe run back to their cars during the interval in the dark and the rain, to unplug what might well be the only car charging in the car park. I've talked about encouraging people to stay in the city centre and spend more money.

I've talked about the future necessity of providing a sufficient number of EV-equipped parking bays to meed demand (in the Low Emissions Zone), and how counter-productive it is to try to manage demand by punitive fines. (There are only eight connectors in that car park, which has over 800 parking spaces.) I've talked about making the car park a welcoming place for EV drivers, who are after all (during the day) paying the steep car park charges just like everyone else, rather than a source of stress and worry and fretting about time.

We'll see what they say.
 
A 4 hour stay on a 7kW destination charger should easily give you around 100 miles extra range.
I found the ones at our usual, day trip, seaside venue, which is 90 miles from home, very handy when I had the 160 mile range ZS. I have no need for them now though with the 4 having a 270 mile range.
 
A 4 hour stay on a 7kW destination charger should easily give you around 100 miles extra range.
I found the ones at our usual, day trip, seaside venue, which is 90 miles from home, very handy when I had the 160 mile range ZS. I have no need for them now though with the 4 having a 270 mile range.

That's sort of not the point. The point is that when you're away from home - or just someone who doesn't have their own charger - you might easily be doing stuff that takes more than 4 hours.

Example - I've driven somewhere on holiday, I've emptied my battery. I want a full battery for the rest of my holiday. I go to a city for the day. Now, normally, even when I drove an ICE, I would park somewhere, visit one of the city's sights, spend 1-2 hours there, find somewhere to eat, spend 1-2 hours there, mooch around some shops, see another sight, and easily spend 6 hours in the place.

And I know my parking fee is racking up, but I've priced that in.

What I don't want is to have to interrupt that day, to go back to the car park, possibly just to move it to another space.

It's a bit of a head-scratcher, because yeah, it's not OK if someone else needs a charge more than I do, and they find the chargers all occupied. But I think we have to achieve this by providing enough chargers, rather than setting time limits on slow chargers.

100kW+ chargers, fine, yes. We should expect to leave those as soon as we've got what we need.

50kW is an awkward middle-ground. Takes long enough that you want to do something else. But not long enough that you can justify going far.
 
A 4 hour stay on a 7kW destination charger should easily give you around 100 miles extra range.
I found the ones at our usual, day trip, seaside venue, which is 90 miles from home, very handy when I had the 160 mile range ZS. I have no need for them now though with the 4 having a 270 mile range.

As ukslim said, that is totally not the point. I park in that car park to go to the opera. Some performances are longer than four hours. Even if the performance is shorter than that, I might want to go for a meal beforehand. If I need to charge while I'm there I don't want to have to run out of the theatre at the interval (in the dark and the rain, probably) to unplug my car to avoid an arbitrary £40 fine. Particularly since it's an absolute certainty that nearly all the other connectors will be sitting unused.

These are destination chargers. They should be treated as parking spaces equipped for EVs, not as a scarce resource to be managed by punitive fines. As it stands, the connectors are never fully occupied. Stop forcing EV drivers to rush back to their cars and disconnect them for no reason. And if it ever gets to the point that the connectors are sometimes fully occupied, install more chargers! Eight EV-equipped spaces in a car park with over 800 spaces total, in a Low Emissions Zone, is paltry.

They need to start thinking differently, about making that car park a welcoming place where EV drivers can leave their cars for as long as they need to (and are prepared to pay the parking for) without fretting about time and curtailing their stay in the city centre.

I think the connectors aren't heavily used because most people driving into the city centre aren't coming that far, and have home charging capability which will be cheaper than those chargers anyway. That mostly applies to me too, even though I live 50 miles away. Most of the time I can just park up in an ordinary space and drive home.

However there was an occasion in May when my schedule was tight and I had to drive on after the opera performance to stay in a hotel for the night, with another 70-mile drive the next day. The car park type 2 chargers were the ideal place to pick up the extra charge I was going to need. But because of the £40 fine I had to turn down my friend's suggestion that we arrive early and have a meal in the city centre before the performance. It would have been really good, because I knew I would miss dinner at the hotel, but I didn't want the stress of being in the theatre, watching the clock, and knowing I would have to sprint out at the interval to move the car. As it was, I got back to the car after 3 hours 35 minutes. I didn't need that long to top up the battery (from 75%), I needed it to sit through Carmen and enjoy it.

I'm also concerned about the winter. I don't yet know how much range my SR will have in January when it's freezing and blowing a gale and the roads are slushy. I should be OK, because in summer I only use about 55% of the range to get there and back, but I don't know. I don't want the stress of worrying about getting low before I get home in these conditions. But I also don't want the stress of worrying if I'm going to get back to the car in time to avoid being docked £40, or running out of the theatre (in the dark and in freezing rain) to move the car from a charging connector nobody else wants in any case.
 
From last winter reckon on losing around 25% of your range in the cold months - it really does make a large difference!
 
At 25% loss I should still be able to make it there and back. But if I get to the city on a truly horrible evening, and the GOM is showing less than 70 miles remaining, I'm going to want to use one of these chargers. And I don't want to be fretting during a performance about whether I'm going to get out of the theatre in time to avoid a £40 fine. I don't even want to have to say cheerio to my friends in a hurry to get to the car. I don't want to have to leave the theatre during the interval on that truly horrible evening to move the car, instead of relaxing with my friends. Especially not when I'm probably the only person on the damn chargers in the first place.

It's entirely unnecessary punishment of EV drivers, for zero gain to anyone else.
 
Fines should only apply if you're over the maximum parking time limit.
I think some councils/car park operators have no idea what 7kW chargers are used for.
@Rolfe do you pay to park as well as pay to charge in the car park in question and is there a maximum parking time ?
 
It's a big (over 800 spaces) multi-storey car park. It's pretty expensive to park during the day and I very seldom do that.

1689183132488.png


There's no time limit so long as you have the funds. But imagine sticking £40 on top of that if you go a second over 4 hours on their type 2 chargers! Especially given that it's a dead cert there will be free connectors any time you like.

The flat rate is a decent deal when you come into town for the evening, and even if you want to have a meal before the theatre and park after five, it's still just £6.80. The electricity is 40p per unit, which isn't bad either.

But that fine is preposterous.
 
I managed to pick up an overstay charge recently. Parking space said maximum of two hours big sign. Charger said maximum of 1.5 hours small sign. I was over 1.5 hours, but under 2 hours. A £10 overstay charge was applied automatically to my charging bill. I'm sure I can be bothered to argue with the council jobsworths for a tenner.
 
It is ridiculous imposing a fine when you have paid to park as well as to charge.
 
No, it was a 50kW charger. There are also several 7kW chargers in the same car park with 4 hour restrictions on the parking bays, didn't check to see what the time restriction on those chargers was.
 
An hour and a half is pretty generous on a rapid charger. Our village charger has a 45-minute limit, although the ten-minute "grace period" actually makes it 54 minutes 45 seconds. But the way that works, if you go over 55 minutes then you're going to get a £1 per minute fine starting at 45 minutes, so your staring point is a £10 fine!

But it's OK, because it's the only charger for literally miles around. It's not heavily used, but if you do want on it, then it's good to know that nobody can block it for more than an hour. I can get over 60% of battery fill in the allowed time, if I start from a low SoC.

I've had another look at the Penicuik type 2 chargers, and the deal is like this.

1689185235895.png


Seems a bit rough to make people wait until after ten so they can leave their cars overnight, but at least it's a step in the right direction.
 
No, it was a 50kW charger. There are also several 7kW chargers in the same car park with 4 hour restrictions on the parking bays, didn't check to see what the time restriction on those chargers was.
I can understand a 1.5 hour limit though on a rapid charger as they are not destination chargers.
 
Yes, especially if there's only one rapid charger, as is quite often the case in these village or suburban installations.

I haven't seen time limits at motorway service stations, but most people charging there are only too keen to get charged and move on. Tesla are a bit controlling, but even they don't kick you off while your car is still taking on charge.
 
I can understand a 1.5 hour limit though on a rapid charger as they are not destination chargers.
I understand why there is a limit. The thing that annoyed me is I thought I had a two hour limit as that is what the large sign on the post behind the bay said. However there was a small sign on the charger stating 1.5 hour limit. It's the contradiction of the two signs that pees me off.
 

Are you enjoying your MG4?

  • Yes

    Votes: 535 79.1%
  • I'm in the middle

    Votes: 90 13.3%
  • No

    Votes: 51 7.5%
Support us by becoming a Premium Member

Latest MG EVs video

MG3 Hybrid+ & Cyberster Configurator News + hot topics from the MG EVs forums
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom