Poor charging experience

[aitch]

On a longish trip down the M5 I needed to stop at Gordano services, not specifically for a charge, more for a discharge.
Tried to charge whilst I was busy but unfortunately both charge units were being used, this wasn’t an issue as I just had enough to get me to my destination but I like to top up whilst the car is parked.
The issue was a car parked plugged in sat with 100% charge stopping anyone else from charging for the 15min it took me to discharge and get a coffee. The car had clearly been at 100% for longer than this.
What made it worse was this car was an MG4.
Whilst this did not really impact me this time if I’d arrived with a lower charge I would have been severely pissed off at the lack of consideration for others.
It’s not as though they could claim ignorance as they could have checked the app, if they wanted/needed longer parking why not move the car to a normal parking place.
sorry rant over

 

[Tig170]

Let The MacMaster / EVM / Geoff Buys Cars know, they love this sort of thing, I hope you explained charging etiquette to them.

EDIT: I think it was the MacMaster who told a recent story of a van driver who parked all night charging in an Ionity bay on the A14?, and he was upset as he wanted his employer to pay his overnight parking fine! - I'll try to find the link

OK EVM (7:30 minutes in)

 

[Rolfe]

He's right that overstay fines on rapid chargers are a good idea. But he's wrong that there are no destination chargers with overstay fines. Every single bloody one I want to use has something like a four-hour time limit. Dinner and the theatre? Forget it. That needs stopping.

 

[PristDean]

He's right that overstay fines on rapid chargers are a good idea. But he's wrong that there are no destination chargers with overstay fines. Every single bloody one I want to use has something like a four-hour time limit. Dinner and the theatre? Forget it. That needs stopping.

As someone who very rarely uses public chargers (me), when you say destination chargers, how is a charger classed as a destination charger i.e what would make it so.?

 

[aitch]

As someone who very rarely uses public chargers (me), when you say destination chargers, how is a charger classed as a destination charger i.e what would make it so.?

Destination chargers are normally ”rapid chargers”, usually ac ones or just the option of a 3 pin plug, something to plug into for hours rather than minutes, whilst you are at an event, shopping or whatever you have driven to todo.

 

[Rolfe]

Type 2 is a destination charger. The idea is you leave your car to charge slowly while you're at your destination. They're better thought of as parking spaces equipped for EV charging. The two I've used have both had completely pointless 4-hour limits, in one case enforced by an automatic £40 overstay fine. In the case of the ones I was using they're both underutilised, so there's no point at all to limiting the time. In one case I fancied dinner before the theatre, but had to cancel the dinner because that would have taken me over the four hours.

Rapid chargers, yes. Staying on one of these should be as acceptable as parking in front of a petrol pump and going off to have dinner.

I don't think charging companies have quite got their heads round this. If the type 2 chargers are never all occupied at once, leave people alone to charge as they like. If they are all occupied and people can't get on, install more chargers! The dinner-and-the-theatre one was an 800+ space multi-storey car park in a low emissions zone. Eight parking spaces equipped for EVs. And you pay a lot for the parking in any case. If the chargers get popular, then equip more parking spaces. Simples.

 

[PristDean]

Ahh, with you. Yes, I agree, in those cases it seems over zealous to put a tight time restriction upon a slow charging car when the owner is spending money at the destination potentially supporting a local community.

 

[Rolfe]

It seems to me that as we go forward it is going to have to become commonplace that parking spaces are equipped with type 2 charging facilities, for use (if desired) by the car parked there. It won't need to be the entire car park - the one I mentioned in Glasgow had several EVs parked in ordinary spaces when I was there, and usually that would be me too because I have enough range to get there and back on one charge (but I was going on somewhere else after the theatre that evening). But drivers should (in the future) be able to rely on rocking up to a car park and finding that it has sufficient charging-equipped bays that they can get one if they want it. And not have to rush out at the interval or get out of bed in the middle of the night to stop the charge.

I've bought a ticket for a music festival 450 miles from home next month and when investigating charging opportunities discovered that there are 36 type 2 connectors in the car park attached to the theatre. (Apparently you may only get 3.5 Kw out of a connector if two cars are on the same charger, but it's something.) That's the way venues need to be thinking.

 

[PeteC]

Type 2 is a destination charger. The idea is you leave your car to charge slowly while you're at your destination. They're better thought of as parking spaces equipped for EV charging. The two I've used have both had completely pointless 4-hour limits, in one case enforced by an automatic £40 overstay fine. In the case of the ones I was using they're both underutilised, so there's no point at all to limiting the time. In one case I fancied dinner before the theatre, but had to cancel the dinner because that would have taken me over the four hours.

Rapid chargers, yes. Staying on one of these should be as acceptable as parking in front of a petrol pump and going off to have dinner.

I don't think charging companies have quite got their heads round this. If the type 2 chargers are never all occupied at once, leave people alone to charge as they like. If they are all occupied and people can't get on, install more chargers! The dinner-and-the-theatre one was an 800+ space multi-storey car park in a low emissions zone. Eight parking spaces equipped for EVs. And you pay a lot for the parking in any case. If the chargers get popular, then equip more parking spaces. Simples.

The Charge Place Scotland destination chargers near where I stay in Scotland have a 4 hour limit but only during the daytime. You can stay as long as you like outside the stated hours.

I'm not sure how useful the 4 hour limit actually is. If I go to the chargers and they are in use, a 4 hour limit means that they could be in use for some while so I'm likely to go elsewhere for charging. I don't think it makes any more sense than leaving the chargers with no time limit! But at least it allows you to put your car on charge while you're out for the evening.

 

[ukslim]

Yes, and I think it's coming soon. Holiday flat last week had off-street parking, and I idly wondered whether there might be somewhere to plug in the granny charger. But then I thought... Well it's not beyond possibility that there's a Type 2 charger.

Now, there wasn't. But I can see it getting more and more common, and eventually so common you'd be disappointed not to find one.

And the same will go for anywhere you park: shops, pubs, cafes, cinemas, bowling alleys, ...

I think time limits are OK depending on the destination. The Tesco chargers are there to use while you shop. You're not shopping for over 2 hours. You'll get more than enough charge to cover your return journey to Tesco.

 

[PeteC]

I think time limits are OK depending on the destination. The Tesco chargers are there to use while you shop. You're not shopping for over 2 hours. You'll get more than enough charge to cover your return journey to Tesco.

Yes, that's fair enough.

 

[Tonych]

He's right that overstay fines on rapid chargers are a good idea. But he's wrong that there are no destination chargers with overstay fines. Every single bloody one I want to use has something like a four-hour time limit. Dinner and the theatre? Forget it. That needs stopping.

Many of the Shell associated destination (11kW) chargers (in London at least) are going to charge a fee after 4 hours.

 

[Rolfe]

I think time limits are OK depending on the destination. The Tesco chargers are there to use while you shop. You're not shopping for over 2 hours. You'll get more than enough charge to cover your return journey to Tesco.

That's true, but why would you stay longer when you've finished shopping anyway? Why make the limit on the chargers less than the limit on parking at Tesco itself? If they've installed too few chargers for the demand, they need to install more.

 

[PeteC]

Yes, and I think it's coming soon. Holiday flat last week had off-street parking, and I idly wondered whether there might be somewhere to plug in the granny charger. But then I thought... Well it's not beyond possibility that there's a Type 2 charger.

Now, there wasn't. But I can see it getting more and more common, and eventually so common you'd be disappointed not to find one.

And the same will go for anywhere you park: shops, pubs, cafes, cinemas, bowling alleys, ...

Hopefully so. There have been some neat little charge posts installed just along from us in Scotland.

There are 3 stations, each with 2 chargers. They aren't held as specific places for evs so can get ICE vehicles in the way, as with the red van, but generally it's possible to get on one of those. There's no time limit, just a polite message in the app asking you not to leave your car on the charger if it has finished charging. There are a few of this type dotted around the area which is handy as lots of properties have no off street parking.

 

[Rolfe]

Many of the Shell associated destination (11kW) chargers (in London at least) are going to charge a fee after 4 hours.

What, over and above what they're charging for the electricity? I suppose if they physically can't install enough chargers to meet demand that's one way to manage it in the interim, but they really need enough EV-equipped parking spaces to meed demand.

Hopefully so. There have been some neat little charge posts installed just along from us in Scotland.

View attachment 18934There are 3 stations, each with 2 chargers. They aren't held as specific places for evs so can get ICE vehicles in the way, as with the red van, but generally it's possible to get on one of those. There's no time limit, just a polite message in the app asking you not to leave your car on the charger if it has finished charging. There are a few of this type dotted around the area which is handy as lots of properties have no off street parking.

That's excellent. A polite notice asking ICE vehicles not to block access for EVs might be nice too, mind. (One could always drive on to the grass, I suppose...)

The Charge Place Scotland destination chargers near where I stay in Scotland have a 4 hour limit but only during the daytime. You can stay as long as you like outside the stated hours.

View attachment 18933

I'm not sure how useful the 4 hour limit actually is. If I go to the chargers and they are in use, a 4 hour limit means that they could be in use for some while so I'm likely to go elsewhere for charging. I don't think it makes any more sense than leaving the chargers with no time limit! But at least it allows you to put your car on charge while you're out for the evening.

I have seen a similar sign at the CPS chargers in Penicuik, although I didn't memorise it because it's only nine miles from home and there is zero chance I'll need an AC charge there. I remember that it seemed designed to keep cars moving on during the day when people shopping might want the spaces, but to allow residents nearby to charge overnight. That's well thought through.

But a £40 fine for staying more than four hours in a city centre car park where the chargers are actually underutilised is bonkers. That fine applies all night too. I arrived at 6.30, but hung around until 6.45 before I dared start the charge. During that time someone else connected, remarking that he was OK as he only needed three hours. I got back at about 10.30. I think there was another car there by then. But I had to pass on having dinner, because if I'd accepted that invitation it would have taken me well over the four hours. Tough luck, restaurant.

I'll bet they virtually never actually collect on the £40. Nobody is going to be daft enough to risk that. Especially on top of the parking charges, which are expensive during the day. All they're doing is forcing people to cut meetings short, decide not to do dinner as well as the theatre, cut their shopping spree short, or run out of the theatre at the interval to move the car. All for nothing, because there are literally never eight cars charging there at once. And if there were, that would merely prove that that car park needs more than 1% of its spaces equipped for EV service.

 

[Tig170]

Type 2 is a destination charger. The idea is you leave your car to charge slowly while you're at your destination. They're better thought of as parking spaces equipped for EV charging. The two I've used have both had completely pointless 4-hour limits, in one case enforced by an automatic £40 overstay fine. In the case of the ones I was using they're both underutilised, so there's no point at all to limiting the time. In one case I fancied dinner before the theatre, but had to cancel the dinner because that would have taken me over the four hours.

Its crazy with these praking cowboys : I've just been taken to court twice (DCBL / Nexus parking), and won both times (the judges in court were livid with them!)+ had 2 parking fines (one from a hotel in kings lynn - The Dukes Head + Crown Plaza Stratford on Avon ), but had no choice in that this was an enterprise car club EV vehicle. So although the later 2 didn't cost me, my employer (i.e. government, at it was some sort of scheme for us to use car club cars on business trips) picked up the bill? - it seemed to go on the hire bill (and enterprise they just pay it), once paid you cant dispute it : I did dispute these with the head of finance, but was told to pipe down!

EDIT : It was one of those considerations when I got the MG4, as as far as I understand it the parking fines go to the lease company rather than the registered keeper? (and they just pay it), hence why i didn't lease my car?

 

[Rolfe]

I've never heard that last part. On the other hand I've never leased a car. It would depend on the lease agreement I suppose, but I'd be very surprised if a leasing company agreed to pick up parking fines. As I remember, when I've hired a car, the agreement has included the hirer being liable for parking fines, and the hire company passing on details of the driver if the car is caught on a speed camera.

 

[evcog]

I do lease my car and understand that I'm resposible for any potential parking fines etc. However, a lot of the carparks are run by councils (England anyway) which have gone into deals with many of the charge operators. I don't know if they get a cut from each charge, or are able to rent the sapce to the charging companies, or maybe its just virtue signalling wihout any installation costs.

I suspect that many of the Council planners have never driven EVs so have no idea how they are or should be used. However, many of the parking time limits are based on what was in force for ICE cars and I suspect they don't want to annoy ICE drivers (voters) by giving an advantage to EV drivers (currently smaller number of voters).

My local carpark had 8 Blink 7kw chargers installed back in April. They raised the price to 65p Kw/Hr (just reduced to 55p) but kept the same 3 hour max parking time and the parking charge of £2.20. As there are other cheaper chargers in other carparks close by (28p Kw/Hr) I have not seen one car in those chargers. Correction there was one the other day but it was an ICE merc.

Someday our representaives will realise if they want to encourge the adoption of EVs they should at least consult with those with knowledge about what the whole EV thing is and what stupid, no longer relevant, rules need to be modernised. It will happen but only when our representaives actually experience driving and using EVs.

 

[Tig170]

I've never heard that last part. On the other hand I've never leased a car. It would depend on the lease agreement I suppose, but I'd be very surprised if a leasing company agreed to pick up parking fines. As I remember, when I've hired a car, the agreement has included the hirer being liable for parking fines, and the hire company passing on details of the driver if the car is caught on a speed camera.

Thats true, but at the end of the day I was staying at both hotels overnight (albeit charging for a few hours, whilst going back n forth to collect data overnight), and in the end enterprise paid the fees (which was passed onto my empolyer apparently), as long as it wasn't on my cost code then fine, but someone is paying for these cowboy operators

 

[Ian Key]

The Charge Place Scotland destination chargers near where I stay in Scotland have a 4 hour limit but only during the daytime. You can stay as long as you like outside the stated hours.

View attachment 18933

I'm not sure how useful the 4 hour limit actually is. If I go to the chargers and they are in use, a 4 hour limit means that they could be in use for some while so I'm likely to go elsewhere for charging. I don't think it makes any more sense than leaving the chargers with no time limit! But at least it allows you to put your car on charge while you're out for the evening.

I read that as meaning that it's an Electric Vehicle charging point only between 8:30am and 5:30pm but outside those hours anyone can park there for a maximum of 4 hours