Lane Keep Assist love.....

[siteguru]

Looking at this from the other perspective, another thing I was taught was, just because you see an indicator, don't believe the other driver is actually going to do that.

The other derivation of that is ... if you see an indicator going, all it tells you is that the indicator works. (Unless you saw the indicator turn on in the first place, in which case you now know that the driver is checking that the indicator works).

 

[Rolfe]

I agree, I find the ACC great on the motorway, both as regards the car reacting to traffic in front, and stopping me from going at licence-losing speeds. I find it a bit jerky on other roads though.

The LKA is a pain in the neck. I still think that if you need that, you're not fit to drive.

 

[Rolfe]

The other derivation of that is ... if you see an indicator going, all it tells you is that the indicator works. (Unless you saw the indicator turn on in the first place, in which case you now know that the driver is checking that the indicator works).

I once had a horrendous right turn to do in Basildon, coming out of Cherrydown West driving west and turning north. I had to get out, I had a branch surgery to take in Laindon or Langdon Hills or somewhere like that, and patients waiting. But traffic coming from my right was coming off a roundabout really fast, and my only hope was for someone to be turning left into the road I was trying to emerge from, and so leave me enough of a gap to get out.

The trouble was, a lot of drivers were indicating as they came round the roundabout, then the indicators weren't cancelling. It was very hard to tell who was really intending to turn, and who just hadn't cancelled their indicator. I tried to gauge the speed of the cars to guess if they intended to turn. A couple of times I nearly pulled out right in front of someone who was actually going straight on. And if I'd done that, I knew damn well it would be considered to be my fault. As well as my trip to A&E, as I'd be hit right on the driver's door.

I managed not to get killed, or even have an accident, but it was a close thing.

 

[siteguru]

Sometimes in situations like that it's easier just to turn left and then turn around at the next roundabout (if the road is suitably configured).

 

[Captain]

Yes you ar probably alone . . . however the adaptive cruise control has de-risked my motorway driving at a stroke. Tremendous safetey aid. But the lane assist kept on jogging the wheel - most disconcerting. I've a 22 plate LR ZS.

Actually,
if you can filter out the dinosaurs in the thread I'm not alone
Just try driving in the centre of the lane

 

[Rolfe]

Sometimes in situations like that it's easier just to turn left and then turn around at the next roundabout (if the road is suitably configured).

To be honest, as far as I remember, there was bugger-all chance to turn left either. The problem was getting a gap in the traffic from the right, and if that happened it was about as easy to turn right as left.

Roundabouts. We're talking about a New Town. Plenty of those!

 

[AdeSc]

Every car fitted with LKA allows you to turn it off completely, they just differ as to how (screen or button).
When shopping for our next car, for my wife, a criteria will be a physical button or the ability to select off as a permanent thing via OBD11.

I’m told by MG that to keep it’s NCAP5 rating, LKA and all the other idiot settings have to default to on when the car is started. I’m looking into various workarounds including hacking the car, obscuring the camera etc., etc.

 

[bowfer]

I’m told by MG that to keep it’s NCAP5 rating, LKA and all the other idiot settings have to default to on when the car is started. I’m looking into various workarounds including hacking the car, obscuring the camera etc., etc.

Yes, that applies to any car now.
They all default to on.
But they all also let you switch it off whilst driving, either by a button or a screen.
A button is a decent workaround, our holiday hire Kia had a button and pressing that as part of the start routine was a piece of piss compared with going into a screen.

 

[tsedge]

It may surprise you to hear I agree with a lot of what you say and commend you on your heightened awareness and vigilance when driving, but unfortunately by your own admission this came about by a close call (that could have had much more serious consequences) and sadly some close personnel experiences.

Indeed and good to hear.

The reality today is a very high % of drivers on the road do not possess all of your exceptional combination of skills ( training, experience, hyper-vigilance AND patience) and because of that they will make mistakes,

There's nothing exceptional about me, I have had no special training (nor did I claim any), as I explained my early driving experiences simply taught me the value of changing my approach to observation, something I subsequently learned is a recommended approach by many experts.

I'm sorry, but you saying that people always indicating is part of the problem is just arrogance on your part

You've misunderstood what I said. It isn't whether they indicate or not, it is the automatic stick a signal on mindset that is used instead of proper observation. If the situation merits a signal, put one on.

Looking back thru this thread shows there is definitely divided opinions on this,

Agreed.

Nearly every time I (or you) go out on the roads we will see examples of distracted, careless and sometimes plain dangerous driving, do u think many of them people share your driving prowess/concentration levels?

My driving prowess is nothing special and available to anyone who would like to improve their observation skills who isn't medically unable to do so.

The whole reason I brought it up was to highlight the need for people to do better. If I can do it, 99% of drivers can do it.

I've never implied that indicating is an alternative to proper vigilance,

Great, glad to hear it.

Human nature is that a lot of people aren't always going to be hyper vigilant and as a (albeit much inferior) alternative I'd prefer they at least indicated their intentions

I've never implied that an indicator shouldn't be used if someone is there. I have not called for indicators to not be used at all. I simply want more people to improve their observations: look thoroughly so you know who is there and indicate if you need to.

Remember rules are for the masses not the elites, and "perfection is the enemy of the good"

Indeed and complacency is the enemy of improvement.

As also pointed out earlier by @Ian Key

To borrow a medical saying "doctors differ, and patients die"
Even driving experts disagree on the whys and wherefores on this topic

Indeed, more than happy for there to be different viewpoints on this, but I won't stop putting mine forward.

Hope the view is nice from your ivory tower,

I prefer the more polite - we'll have to agree to disagree on this

Well now, you claim to be polite but you have already labelled me arrogant and living in an ivory tower. I said no such similar thing about you, merely that I thought you were wrong.

Lastly consider if everyone drove perfectly they'd never be a crash - and for that matter seatbelts and airbags would be redundant, but welcome to the real world!

No idea why you got perfection in your head. I'm just recommending people improve their observations by taking a different approach. But for some reason you are then taking it to an extreme that I never said and beating me over my head with a strawman argument you invented.

I think enough has been said here, so I won't say any more. More than happy to agree to disagree.

I leave the last word to you.

 

[AdeSc]

Actually,
if you can filter out the dinosaurs in the thread I'm not alone
Just try driving in the centre of the lane

Actually, Captain, driving in the centre of the lane is not always where you want or need to be. One road I use in particular has ‘speed mounds’ in the centre of the original lane. That would be a speed bump that’s around four feet square, either side of the road that it is possible to straddle. Our idiot council, in their infinite wisdom, have introduced cycle lanes on either side of this 13 foot wide road and left a single lane down the centre for vehicles, of which 6 per hour are double decked busses. If the road is clear, which it is most of the time, to straddle the speed bump, you need to cross the white line. This same road has these strange chicane sections too, these sections also have white lines and they cause a twitch of LKA too. I will always be a better driver than the car, I am more experienced, I have ‘proper’ road craft and drove professionally for years up to and including anti terror driving. All I ask is the ability to turn off all the idiot settings with a single, physical button. Obviously way too much to ask. And… it’s not about ‘hyper vigilance’ I saw mentioned elsewhere. Under UK law, you are required to pay attention, hence we have offences such as ‘Driving without due care’ etc. I guarantee you, half the drivers where I live in Norfolk would be unable to pass a driving test, even given three months notice to up their game. Yesterday alone, i drove 16 miles, was I a traffic cop, I could have had a field day, I had two drivers pull away from the kerb when I was less than 6 feet from the rear of their vehicle, I had three drivers pull out in front of me from side roads and one pillock doing about 40 mph in a narrow close where three little girls were playing on their bikes in the street! Norfolk driving standards are horrific. Spleen vented. Feel better now.

 

[bowfer]

Actually, Captain, driving in the centre of the lane is not always where you want or need to be. One road I use in particular has ‘speed mounds’ in the centre of the original lane. That would be a speed bump that’s around four feet square, either side of the road that it is possible to straddle. Our idiot council, in their infinite wisdom, have introduced cycle lanes on either side of this 13 foot wide road and left a single lane down the centre for vehicles, of which 6 per hour are double decked busses. If the road is clear, which it is most of the time, to straddle the speed bump, you need to cross the white line. This same road has these strange chicane sections too, these sections also have white lines and they cause a twitch of LKA too. I will always be a better driver than the car, I am more experienced, I have ‘proper’ road craft and drove professionally for years up to and including anti terror driving. All I ask is the ability to turn off all the idiot settings with a single, physical button. Obviously way too much to ask.

I think he was referring to the post above his, which was about motorways.
Only a total idiot would suggest driving in the middle of the lane on A/B roads.

 

[AdeSc]

The answer to me is simple . If like me you don't want any interference with steering the car then you turn it off. If you want interference with steering the car then you leave it on.

It’s the time it takes to turn it off. Wait for the car to boot, press the brake, into the touch screen, Car, second tab, sign recognition, off, LKA, Agree, front collision, agree, rear collision, agree, driver awareness, agree. Auto lights, off. Now I can drive. Ludicrous. Single button, I’d be a happy little bunny. No, I would, honest…

 

[AB71]

Actually, Captain, driving in the centre of the lane is not always where you want or need to be. One road I use in particular has ‘speed mounds’ in the centre of the original lane. That would be a speed bump that’s around four feet square, either side of the road that it is possible to straddle. Our idiot council, in their infinite wisdom, have introduced cycle lanes on either side of this 13 foot wide road and left a single lane down the centre for vehicles, of which 6 per hour are double decked busses. If the road is clear, which it is most of the time, to straddle the speed bump, you need to cross the white line. This same road has these strange chicane sections too, these sections also have white lines and they cause a twitch of LKA too. I will always be a better driver than the car, I am more experienced, I have ‘proper’ road craft and drove professionally for years up to and including anti terror driving. All I ask is the ability to turn off all the idiot settings with a single, physical button. Obviously way too much to ask. And… it’s not about ‘hyper vigilance’ I saw mentioned elsewhere. Under UK law, you are required to pay attention, hence we have offences such as ‘Driving without due care’ etc. I guarantee you, half the drivers where I live in Norfolk would be unable to pass a driving test, even given three months notice to up their game. Yesterday alone, i drove 16 miles, was I a traffic cop, I could have had a field day, I had two drivers pull away from the kerb when I was less than 6 feet from the rear of their vehicle, I had three drivers pull out in front of me from side roads and one pillock doing about 40 mph in a narrow close where three little girls were playing on their bikes in the street! Norfolk driving standards are horrific. Spleen vented. Feel better now.

Like the one in my Kia Niro which you can’t see when you’re driving as it’s a bit out of sight. I shot myself when it first halkneed , felt like a ghost was taking the wheel and hard turning it back. I hardly ever notice it now and actually have it on on motorways for my benefit. What I’m saying is it should really only be a huge shock/prob if the whole LKA is new to the driver no? Otherwise you expect it and I’m sure the car adapts to you after a few yrs of driving it ! Seriously

 

[AdeSc]

I think he was referring to the post above his, which was about motorways.
Only a total idiot would suggest driving in the middle of the lane on A/B roads.

Ahhh… understood.

 

[Vingnut]

It’s the time it takes to turn it off. Wait for the car to boot, press the brake, into the touch screen, Car, second tab, sign recognition, off, LKA, Agree, front collision, agree, rear collision, agree, driver awareness, agree. Auto lights, off. Now I can drive. Ludicrous. Single button, I’d be a happy little bunny. No, I would, honest…

You do not need to wait for the car to boot if it's only the LKA you want to dampen, you can set it to alert at any stage after ready, also when driving. If you then want it to shut up a little scroll down and you got voice of and vibration of to, all can be done while driving.

Auto lights I think you can kill for the trip by turning them on and of 3 times (probably while driving faster than 40kmt/30mph).
Driver awareness I have set to low and it does not bother me (R30).

The rest. Why bother? Ok it's a shock when the car emergency brakes while reversing and it detects a person 5m away I agree about that but stil let it be on.

 

[iamnick]

I'm still having issues with mine, wrote to MG whom said there was a "recall" on the KLA feature. Had my car updated but still having the same issues. I wrote another complaint to MG who told me it was industry standard and there was nothing more they could do.

I know its probably not going to get traction but I've decided to be a knob and create a petition. If you feel that as a consumer you should be able to decided to turn the feature off permanently please sign This campaign needs you now

 

[evcog]

The MG ZS was the first car that I have driven with LKA. I did turn lit down to mid level, which it retains on susequent journeys. I have travelled on winding country roads (Somerset), traveled on multiple motorways, and taken some long journeys and have never found any serious issues with using it.

I think we all need to modify our driving styles between any cars anyway because its us driving the car and not the other way round. However, the MG4 does seem to have a more agressive LKA as referenced in this forum and reviewers since launch. I hope that thee will be some sort of update to tone it down without upsetting the authorities.

In the meantime take the advice from across these forums, from any of the MG models.

 

[Emgie 4]

You've misunderstood what I said. It isn't whether they indicate or not, it is the automatic stick a signal on mindset that is used instead of proper observation. If the situation merits a signal, put one on.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I think you said "always indicating was part of the problem" not "automatically indicating" , there is a difference

My driving prowess is nothing special and available to anyone who would like to improve their observation skills who isn't medically unable to do so.

The whole reason I brought it up was to highlight the need for people to do better. If I can do it, 99% of drivers can do it.

I agree with the sentiment and intention, but just because 99% of other drivers CAN do it, I think you'd have to accept the reality that some won't, either through ignorance of risks, arrogance/over confidence of ability's, impatience or just plain laziness.

Indeed, more than happy for there to be different viewpoints on this, but I won't stop putting mine forward.

Agreed, and I think debating difference points of view benefits us all

Well now, you claim to be polite but you have already labelled me arrogant and living in an ivory tower. I said no such similar thing about you, merely that I thought you were wrong.

Again, sorry if I took below as a statement of fact (and somewhat arrogance) since you failed to premise it with 'i think' , perhaps over pedantic on my part

You have this completely and utterly wrong.

a strawman argument you invented

I had to look this up as hadn't heard of it before, but point accepted.

I will agree that prolonging this tangent is fruitless and does stray from the original thread question posed by #Captain about LKA.

Enough said.

 

[Emgie 4]

The varying opinions on LKA suggests to me it's more about different software versions and less about people's driving styles.
What some of us experience - sudden, seemingly random jerking of the wheel (usually caused by system misinterpreting white lines or even changes in tarmac surface) would, I believe cause concern for anyone.
The fact that some people experience none of this gives me hope that the system can be made to function more reliably.

What does concern me is (if I've read correctly) some earlier models/SW versions seemed ok, and also some newer variants, which suggests MG may be 'tinkering' with it on an ongoing basis

Personally I like the concept and principle behind LKA, quietly monitoring in the background ready to correct if driver gets a distracted moment, but the current MG variant seems to add-in; quietly lurking ready to pull you into oncoming traffic, or the ditch.
After all it's meant to be part of the 'crash avoidance' system, not 'crash assistance'

 

[MoDolph]

I think I would be more likely to use LKA if I could still indicate to change lanes using the 3 flashes you get when momentarily pressing the stalk. Currently, even if I indicate and then start to move between the second and third flash, it still activates the LKA. There should be a few seconds grace period after the indicator stops before reengaging.