Poor charging experience

He's not comparing like with like. EV chargers are the equivalent of pay at pump petrol stations which take £100 from you before you fill up so with only £40 balance left on his card he wouldn't be able to put petrol in either.
The one he tested on just kept dropping the limit until it succeeded and let him take £9 of petrol with the card that supposedly only had £10 in the account.
 
I hadn't watched the video before commenting - I thought it was another EV bashing video about the time it takes to "fill up". :)
:) This ones an EV charger payment system bashing video. It does need standardisation so everyone can easily use a charger without being penalised at all or making it tricky to use.
Octopus have an 'Electoverse' card which works well on some chargers and adds the cost onto the card with your utility account. But still a way to go to obtain an easy to use standard
 
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Paying for EV charging is worse than Petrol!​

Based on my experience with public chargers too, I totally agree with this guy



So full disclosure: I work as a software developer for an EV charging company and I'm currently directly involved in their contactless payment efforts.

A lot of the problems of payment for EV charging ultimately comes down to banks/payment gateways. A lot of them have quite tight time limits between a pre-auth and confirm which is sort of uniquely a problem for EV charging where there may be hours between when you take a pre-auth and the charge starts and when the charge ends and you can confirm the actual amount used. There are also some that basically take the view that it's a new and scary market with a different risk profile and they want nothing to do with it. That leaves you with quite a small pool of financial institutions you can work with and they all know this and will try to screw you over on transaction fees and/or will treat any support requests as the lowest possible priority. This is even more true right now with legislation pending to force all charge point operators to implement contactless payments within the next year or so.

I was actually quite interested to see how the pay-at-pump system "negotiated" the pre-auth down until it was accepted. I'm guessing it effectively uses a binary search - start at £140 then if that fails try £70 then £35 then £18 (rounded from £17.50) then £9 and presumably if that hadn't worked would then try £5, £3, £2 and £1. I honestly hadn't seen that done before and I might just have a go at convincing the powers that be that it would a decent system to implement for EV payment.

On his point about the government mandating that charging station should be able to take a range of RFID tokens (like his Octopus Electroverse card) - that's actually sort of in the draft legislation although it's pretty vague as to how they expect it all to work. The problem here is again more of a business issue than a technical one: the idea is basically that you can split the actors in an EV charging transaction into two, the MSP (Mobility Service Provider) who handle user accounts and billing and so forth and the CPO (Charge Point Operator) who install and run the actually charge points and who have to pay for the electricity. The margins on EV charging are relatively low - particularly on the slower AC chargers (partly due to the fact that everyone already buys electricity for their house and so has a baseline for how much it costs whereas I imagine very few people have much of an idea of how much their petrol is getting marked up) and third party MSPs (like Octopus Electroverse) all want their cut so at the moment most CPOs are set up to have both parts of the process in house and I don't really see this changing until they are forced to by law so we're just going to have to wait and see how it all shakes out I think.
 
What is even more annoying is you have to pay parking fees to use the chargers in some instances. Should be a law against that
 
@gnutrino thanks for that insight - it makes sense of the apparently random way EV preauthorisation works with some providers.

However, some of the big players in EV charging (e.g. Gridserve) seem to have the pre-authorisation problem cracked, so there must be a viable solution out there already.
 
What is even more annoying is you have to pay parking fees to use the chargers in some instances. Should be a law against that
There are some destination chargers in my home town that do that.
However the council has reduced the charging fees compared to others they've installed in free car parks to compensate.
 
So full disclosure: I work as a software developer for an EV charging company and I'm currently directly involved in their contactless payment efforts.

A lot of the problems of payment for EV charging ultimately comes down to banks/payment gateways. A lot of them have quite tight time limits between a pre-auth and confirm which is sort of uniquely a problem for EV charging where there may be hours between when you take a pre-auth and the charge starts and when the charge ends and you can confirm the actual amount used. There are also some that basically take the view that it's a new and scary market with a different risk profile and they want nothing to do with it. That leaves you with quite a small pool of financial institutions you can work with and they all know this and will try to screw you over on transaction fees and/or will treat any support requests as the lowest possible priority. This is even more true right now with legislation pending to force all charge point operators to implement contactless payments within the next year or so.

I was actually quite interested to see how the pay-at-pump system "negotiated" the pre-auth down until it was accepted. I'm guessing it effectively uses a binary search - start at £140 then if that fails try £70 then £35 then £18 (rounded from £17.50) then £9 and presumably if that hadn't worked would then try £5, £3, £2 and £1. I honestly hadn't seen that done before and I might just have a go at convincing the powers that be that it would a decent system to implement for EV payment.

On his point about the government mandating that charging station should be able to take a range of RFID tokens (like his Octopus Electroverse card) - that's actually sort of in the draft legislation although it's pretty vague as to how they expect it all to work. The problem here is again more of a business issue than a technical one: the idea is basically that you can split the actors in an EV charging transaction into two, the MSP (Mobility Service Provider) who handle user accounts and billing and so forth and the CPO (Charge Point Operator) who install and run the actually charge points and who have to pay for the electricity. The margins on EV charging are relatively low - particularly on the slower AC chargers (partly due to the fact that everyone already buys electricity for their house and so has a baseline for how much it costs whereas I imagine very few people have much of an idea of how much their petrol is getting marked up) and third party MSPs (like Octopus Electroverse) all want their cut so at the moment most CPOs are set up to have both parts of the process in house and I don't really see this changing until they are forced to by law so we're just going to have to wait and see how it all shakes out I think.
Excellent, great to have you on the forum. But I think that businesses seeing this new market as scary and more risky than the fossil fuel one is ridiculous on their part. The purchase amounts are on average lower, plus the ownership pool is not as varied, reducing the risk. But hey ho, i guess we'll never know their real reason !.... This is where legislation needs to force their hand
 
@gnutrino thanks for that insight - it makes sense of the apparently random way EV preauthorisation works with some providers.

However, some of the big players in EV charging (e.g. Gridserve) seem to have the pre-authorisation problem cracked, so there must be a viable solution out there already.
I used a Gridserve recently at Woolley Edge services and there was 2 lots of £1 showing in pending on my card which changed to just £1 a day or so after which then disappeared the day after with around £14 for the charge I put in
 
I used a Gridserve recently at Woolley Edge services and there was 2 lots of £1 showing in pending on my card which changed to just £1 a day or so after which then disappeared the day after with around £14 for the charge I put in

Exactly my point. How come Gridserve can do it with £1 pre-authorisation, but BP can apparently only do it by charging relatively large amounts.
 
Funny - the only 2 rapid chargers in Northampton are at Morrisons
MFG are apparently looking to buy all of Morrison's petrol stations. Imagine all the rapid charging hubs!

EDIT - Both are owned by the same private equity company, so this is comparable to Asda buying Euro Garages.

EDIT 2 - The deal includes FIVE HUNDRED (!!!) freehold plots of land suitable for rapid charging hubs & valet bays.
 
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