which home charger?

[BugEyed]

I’m leaning towards the Hypervolt 2, for Alexa integration, but MG is not on their list. Is this not a good device for the MG4?

It'll work as a non-integrated charge point, ie as well as any other. But you will not get the benefit of charging to a specific target.
Back to the lack of public API discussion, yawn.

 

[Dorsetandy]

I have a Sync EV installed Nov 21 - recently switched to Octopus Go so charge my current EV between 12:30 and 04:30 at 7.5p kWh which works out at less than 2p a mile on my Skoda Enyaq. Overall cost per kWh is around 23p which is lower than the current 28p standard tariff.

Be cautious of installers that want the total cost up front without even carrying a pre-installation survey as you may find there are hidden or unexpected costs.

 

[IanMG]

Supporting a public facing APl is an expensive chore for any software team, and in this case there's zero benefit to them to do so.

Not that expensive!
It is only a portal from their server, nothing very onerous.
Octopus permit us to use their api, as do Jaguar Land Rover!
Tesla of course do as well!
I believe Mercedes do as well. It is very useful for businesses.

 

[ukflyer]

It'll work as a non-integrated charge point, ie as well as any other. But you will not get the benefit of charging to a specific target.
Back to the lack of public API discussion, yawn.

I’m so sorry. I’m a complete ev rookie. Can you please explain what that all means? What is charging to a specific target and what is api? What is the difference between integrated and non integrated? Again, I apologise for my ignorance.

 

[djenson]

I’m so sorry. I’m a complete ev rookie. Can you please explain what that all means? What is charging to a specific target and what is api? What is the difference between integrated and non integrated? Again, I apologise for my ignorance.

Many new EV's have a API available. This allows the car to speak to an AC charger and say among other things "hey, im at 45%" Without this API, the charger does not know how charged the car is, so you are limited in how you can program that charger.

Integration describes how well the different chains of devices work together. An example of a well integrated system would be an Ohme home pro, a Tesla and Octopus as your energy supplier

In this example, the tesla can tell the charger its charge level, and octopus can tell the charger the current Kwh rate. Using this info, you could ask the charger to charge the car to 80% by the morning. The charger would then get the Unit rates from Octopus combined with how much charge needs adding to get to 80%, and charge at the cheapest price possible.

 

[Deleted member 9196]

Agreed. Less so if it was properly defined in the first place which I have my doubts about.

I disagree. I will not buy another MG without one so there's a commercial imperative.

And you make up what proportion of the target user base, exactly?

 

[Deleted member 9196]

Many new EV's have a API available. This allows the car to speak to an AC charger and say among other things "hey, im at 45%" Without this API, the charger does not know how charged the car is, so you are limited in how you can program that charger.

That's not an API in the commonly-accepted use of the term. It's a simple signalling protocol on the CP pin of the charge connector that allows the vehicle to communicate a very small range of things to the charge point, by its electrical behaviour (resistance changes, and such). An API (Application Programming Interface) is these days generally assumed to be something exposed over the internet and which you can develop code against in your choice of suitable language. In the case under discussion, this API will be exposed by the SAIC datacentre software and allows the app to control the car and query things like state of charge. SAIC keeps that API private, and I would expect it to continue to do so unless and until it becomes a commercial imperative.

 

[Deleted member 9196]

Not that expensive!
It is only a portal from their server, nothing very onerous.

You are seeing it from a simple infrastructure perspective, not from a customer support and developer perspective, where it is a burden. Octopus has an extremely good software team, as does Tesla. SAIC is not a software company. At least, not yet.

 

[djenson]

That's not an API in the commonly-accepted use of the term. It's a simple signalling protocol on the CP pin of the charge connector that allows the vehicle to communicate a very small range of things to the charge point, by its electrical behaviour (resistance changes, and such). An API (Application Programming Interface) is these days generally assumed to be something exposed over the internet and which you can develop code against in your choice of suitable language. In the case under discussion, this API will be exposed by the SAIC datacentre software and allows the app to control the car and query things like state of charge. SAIC keeps that API private, and I would expect it to continue to do so unless and until it becomes a commercial imperative.

Octopus use the cars API to control charge using data given about the SOC. I only normally see Rapids getting SOC data via the cable, because those have a direct connection to the cars battery

The Control Pilot (CP) line is used by the vehicle's On-Board Charger (OBC) and the EVSE to communicate the charging system state, the EVSE's maximum charging current and any errors.

I don't see SOC being mentioned.

 

[Deleted member 9196]

Octopus use the cars API to control charge using data given about the SOC...

Which is what I said. To get that, it goes via the manufacturer's app/API, not the car.

I suspect we're saying the same thing, I'm just being pernickety about the use of "car's API" when it's not on the car.

 

[IanMG]

Which is what I said. To get that, it goes via the manufacturer's app/API, not the car.

I suspect we're saying the same thing, I'm just being pernickety about the use of "car's API" when it's not on the car.

Not completely correct I'm afraid.
It does talk to the car through the manufacturers api!
You are correct that that the actual control of the charging is via the pins in the charging lead, but that control is manifested by the data the car sends to the car manufacturers server and the api within that server.
As the MG ZS EV can give its charge level to the iSmart app, all that is needed is a third party (Ohme say) can see that charge level and adjust its charge level to the car.
This is exactly what happened with my Jaguar I-Pace. Ohme were hooked into the Jag api for my car - with my permission of course - and on the Ohme app I could see how much charge I had in the car. I could then tell the Ohme app that I wanted to charge the ca to - let's say - 60%. Car and charger would work in harmony and my car stopped charging when it got to 60%, all rather clever!
To be honest I normally charged to whatever level I could get between midnight 30 and 04.30. If that resulted in 100% charge so be it, there is no harm done to the battery charging to 100% using AC.

So having an api with the I-Pace was useful, more so in that 2 seperate clever people wrote code for iOS and Android! Various additions that the api contained were brought into play which weren't available on the manufacturers app.
I don't know of any I-Pace owner who didn't have either the iOS app or Android app on there phones that were written by those clever and generous folk!
I'm sure that if the api was made public, clever and generous folk on this forum would do the same for the MG community.
For a company of SAIC's size making the api publically accessible wouldn't even feature on there budget sheet! Peanuts literally!
JLR made it available because it wasn't expensive and creates a lot of good will.
I was told it was very straightforward just creating a public portal for it from their server.
Easy to limit access to stop over use which could affect their own app.
Octopus and Jaguar are not software companies, but there is an awful lot of software coding in cars these days!!
Tesla isn't a software company per se but they are very good at writing code and good bug free code at that!

 

[IanMG]

I'm very interested in the MG4, and also new to electric cars, I was wondering what type of home charger I should be looking for?
my house was built in 1987 if that helps?

First off, test drive a range of electric cars to find one that 'does it for you'!
Age of you house isn't important! You could have a barn conversion built in the 18th century, owning an EV is more down to off street parking and whether your electricity supply is capable of having 7Kw drawn off it when you have the oven, washing machine, tumble dryer, and dishwasher all working!!
Find yourself a good, trustworthy, electrician to advise you of what you have and whether it is capable or upgradable if necessary.

Next question, which charger make top go for.
This can be slimmed down by asking 'have you got or are you intending getting solar power?'
If you have solar or intending to go down that route, then there vis the Zappi charger, well liked with a good app and very popular. I personally like the Hypervolt 2.
In my view better looking, better software and of course solar ready.
There are other makes, Google will help you here.

No solar, well there are loads of very good competent chargers out there!
I started my EV life with the Ohme charger, sadly not solar capable otherwise I'd still have it.

All EVs can be charged at home and now universally all have the Type 2 Mennekes plug.
I say 'now' as there were a type 1 plug, but very few cars were fitted with it and nothing you can buy now has it!

Most new EVs come with a 'granny charger', the exception is the VW group of cars, who give you a Type 2 cable.
The granny charger is a great device for charging when you visit family or friends who are not blessed with a home charger!

Much is made of Electricity cost.
With most of the charging companies who have a presence out in the wide charging (pun intended) 66p per Kw, home charging, even at 50p per Kw is cheaper! At 5p or 7.5p Octopus Go rates, it is seriously cheap to charge a car.

Depending on what fossil fuel car you have and comparing that to the 'average' EV with 3.6 - 4.6 Kw per Mile, EVs are still much cheaper to run. Not only on a per mile basis, but servicing/maintenance is significantly cheaper for EVs.

 

[Martkarin]

I had an Anderson A2 charger installed, quite expensive particularly when l asked for the 8.5M cable and adaptive fuse. Getting the EST Scotland grant and Government reduction helped a bit. I chose this charger because it is hanging on a roughcast wall close to the front entrance of the house and I chose a colour which roughly matches the roughcast render.
I had to get the adaptive fuse due to my home having a 60 amp main fuse. The charger was fitted in March and I'm still waiting on the DNO contacting me to upgrade the main fuse.
Needless to say, I'm still awaiting the EV, so none of this has been tested yet. But l think adding the adaptive fuse was the right choice, because l am actually thinking my ZS long range Trophy will be here before my DNO. Stay positive folks.

 

[Deleted member 9196]

Not completely correct I'm afraid.
It does talk to the car through the manufacturers api!

Yes, as I said it does. But the API is not hosted on the car, as you correctly say, it's hosted on the manufacturer's servers which effectively proxies the car's state. I'm aware of what having a supported public API enables third parties to do.

 

[IanMG]

That's not an API in the commonly-accepted use of the term. It's a simple signalling protocol on the CP pin of the charge connector that allows the vehicle to communicate a very small range of things to the charge point, by its electrical behaviour (resistance changes, and such). An API (Application Programming Interface) is these days generally assumed to be something exposed over the internet and which you can develop code against in your choice of suitable language. In the case under discussion, this API will be exposed by the SAIC datacentre software and allows the app to control the car and query things like state of charge. SAIC keeps that API private, and I would expect it to continue to do so unless and until it becomes a commercial imperative.

What you actually wrote is factually all over the place!
I think you are correctly trying to say that the charge rate is not defined by the api but by a voltage trigger on the CP pin within the Type 2 plug.
But this voltage trigger can be controlled by the api data received from the car's BMS.
'Exposed over the internet' is a very strange way of describing data that is sent by way of an internet connection!
Actually the data gets to and from the car by way of 3G and 4G mobile phone signal!
The data sent by a phone signal isn't necessarily involving the internet, it can be just data going to and from points.
An API is an interface within a server that allows data to be retrieved and acted on or in fact, commanding a protocol in the car's ECU to do something, i.e. lock the doors.

SAIC and in particular the Chinese, like to tap into other peoples data but not let anybody see or act on theirs!
The iSmart app is insecure, even passwords cannot contain non ASCII characters which increases security.
Imagine if your app was hacked and someone then used the app to unlock the car, get in and drove it off. All because the password security for the app is naff!
This could affect insurance premiums and that in turn affect sales.

With regard to api access, Kia and Hyundai took a while to understand this, SAIC will probably take a little longer, but commercial pressure will force them to eventually as you say.
So our duty is to email MG UK and request it is made available!