V2G to be approved in Australia 2025

[wattmatters]

Do people think V2G is going to be a big deal in Australia?

It'll have its niche but we now have a federal battery rebate and for the cost of a DC bidirectional charge station you can just add ~ 20-30 kWh of stationary storage to the home, permanently dedicated to the job.

I think V2G hype is overblown.

 

[tsedge]

I could see it working for people here who work from home and have their car with them in the daytime, when power prices are highest, charging it cheaply overnight and discharging in the day.

But there's only so many people who work like that.

Might actually make more sense to power workplaces from the cars parked there all day, although that's not a direct benefit to the people who work there, so it probably wouldn't fly.

I tend to agree that sooner or later, home batteries will become ubiquitous.

 

[ReintjeWA]

I think some states are hoping V2G will pick up, as it will make them less reliant on fossil fuels in the evenings (or high demand with low solar generation situations). But to be honest, why would I tax my battery to support a grid that is unwilling to pay me a fair price for my excess solar? I think a lot more has to change than just the connection between car and grid.

However, I'd happily use my car to power my own home, although I don't think it negates the usefulness of a dedicated home-battery. But considering the battery in the car is paid for, I do like the idea that I can hook it up to the house.

 

[davemc]

Depends on price of the V2G device.
Here in OZ we have heaps of Solar during the day and spot electricity prices are negative often.
I get 3 hours free 11am-2pm when I charge, although pay 4 cents extra per kWh for the other 21 hours.
Lots of people getting batteries now; a few cheap batteries out there as well.
I got a quoute for 32kWh Sig with 8kW inverter $18k, another 8
I think $6k for the DC charger.
I have 3 EVs with 180kWh of battery. If a V2G was like $6k alone be worth it.
For under $4k I can put in another 16kWh of battery to bring it up to 48kWh.

 

[wattmatters]

For under $4k I can put in another 16kWh of battery to bring it up to 48kwh.

This is my point. For the cost of V2H/G station ($7-12k) you can have a whole lot of dedicated storage instead. Let me know when they are <$2k.

 

[davemc]

This is my point. For the cost of V2H/G station ($7-12k) you can have a whole lot of dedicated storage instead. Let me know when they are <$2k.

Just got a couple of quotes in around AU$2400 for 8kW.
So yes $7k is 24kWh of dedicated battery.
Yes I'd love to use 180kWh of EV although honestly my peak prob 30kWh a day, take out the charging I do in free 3 hours..

 

[ReintjeWA]

This is my point. For the cost of V2H/G station ($7-12k) you can have a whole lot of dedicated storage instead. Let me know when they are <$2k.

True, but can you get ~50 kWh (80% of 64 kWh) of storage for the cost of V2X?

I think if you're getting a new setup, it is worth getting something with V2X capability. I would agree though that at current costs it's probably not worth it to replace EVSE and home batteries just to get into V2X.

 

[Everest]

Don't forget efficiency too. A typical hybrid inverter should have a quiescent draw of typically 20W-40W, whereas the V2L/H/G vehicle is likely to have an overhead of around 200-300W as it is running more of the vehicle's internal electronics. So, if you're only powering basic home devices (fridge, freezer, router, tv. etc.) with a total consumption of, say, 400-500W you could end up with an "efficiency" of only 60% when using your vehicle as the home energy storage device.

 

[wattmatters]

True, but can you get ~50 kWh (80% of 64 kWh) of storage for the cost of V2X?

It is a car after all, one would assume you do plan to drive it sometimes and might actually want the thing to be charged up ready for a drive, not depleted after running the heat pumps all night and cooking your breakfast.

Is the car always going to be available and plugged in to charge when cheap and discharge when expensive?

Dedicated home BESS is there, 24x7, always optimising your home's energy flows.

Use of a car's battery as a supplemental source on occasions as/when needed makes sense. But to spend $7-12k on that is nuts. Especially when most car manufacturer warranties (including MG) do not cover use of the vehicle in this manner, and the V2X equipment manufacturers also deny all liability for anything that goes wrong.

 

[davemc]

I looking at either a 24kWh, 32kwWh or 40kWh battery. Difference between 24-40kWh is around AU$4800.
Which does not sound much compare to a DC Charger around $6-$7k.
I currently have 3 hours free I charge and 3 EV's with 180kWh; I'd like to tap into that if it's worth it.

I just crunched last 2 years of Elec data and removed the EV charging when it was free or cheap.
I used a avg 17kwWh a day. Not sure I need 180kWh .
Over 2 years had only 31 days over 24kWh and extra 86 days over 20kWh.

Honestly if V2X charger was only $2-3k alone be worth it.
Although you need to buy the Sig setup to start with.
I could go 8kWh and a DC charger around the same $ as 32kWh stand alone.

 

[Phil]

Depends on price of the V2G device.
Here in OZ we have heaps of Solar during the day and spot electricity prices are negative often.
I get 3 hours free 11am-2pm when I charge, although pay 4 cents extra per kWh for the other 21 hours.
Lots of people getting batteries now; a few cheap batteries out there as well.
I got a quoute for 32kWh Sig with 8kW inverter $18k, another 8
I think $6k for the DC charger.
I have 3 EVs with 180kWh of battery. If a V2G was like $6k alone be worth it.
For under $4k I can put in another 16kWh of battery to bring it up to 48kwh.

So, you’re saying forget V2G for now and just add another battery? I’d certainly consider this as I reckon another battery would just about make me off-grid.

 

[davemc]

So, you’re saying forget V2G for now and just add another battery? I’d certainly consider this as I reckon another battery would just about make me off-grid.

Since my last post the DC charger is 40% cheaper in OZ

Thinking put 24kWh in now and leave room if it drops again.

 

[decrep]

So, you’re saying forget V2G for now and just add another battery? I’d certainly consider this as I reckon another battery would just about make me off-grid.

That's what I've done, In WA installing a battery allows more panels, so we now have 9.6kW
Inverter is still limited to 5kW.
At the moment the only grid power we draw is what's needed to run the inverter and monitoring stuff, so about 50W

Obviously it's not as good in Winter, but we didn't have the battery back then.
If off grid that constant 50W drain wouldn't be there,
We're very low mileage, but if you're a bigger user of your car there's plenty of green stuff to keep it topped up.

 

[Corindikev]

I recently moved to a new property that has a 1kW 20 year old BP system so I am replacing it with a new system with 20 x 440 watt bi-facial panels (8.8kW), with a 10 kW hybrid inverter and a 18.64 kWh battery. Our average daily usage is 9-10 kWh so in theory II will never use grid power. The battery is made up of 4 x 4.66 kWh modules scalable up to 41.93 kWh so if I need more battery capacity I can just add another module to the top.

I also just switched to OVO & get 3 free hours between 11am & 2pm every day & 8 cents from midnight to 6am. Peak is a bit dearer at 47.41cents/kWh & Off peak 38.06 cents/kWh. FiT is 2.8c/kWh. In the Essential Energy area we are in, the maximum export is limited to 5kW so the battery will be charged with all the excess. I don't know how the system determines where to send power to first but assume it is the battery.

Supply charge is $1.78.2 a day so I will still have to pay that even if I use no grid power at all. Total cost $11,600.00.

For me V2G would be a waste of time and money.

 

[wattmatters]

I also just switched to OVO & get 3 free hours between 11am & 2pm every day & 8 cents from midnight to 6am.

I'm very close to signing onto the GloBird Zero Hero plan.

3-hours free 11AM-2PM but you get $1/day bonus for each day you import no more than 0.06 kWh between 6-8PM.

And if you have some battery capacity to spare, exports in the 6-8PM window provide a credit of 15 c/kWh. With our 5 kW export limit that's up to 10 kWh we could export and gain another $1.50 credit. Good during these milder weather conditions when our battery will have the capacity to spare. With this plan it's possible to pretty much wipe out the daily supply charge.

I've looked at our history and we'd have qualified for the $1/day bonus every day since we installed the battery.

 

[wattmatters]

For me V2G would be a waste of time and money.

Had the Sigen EVDC charge module price drop been in place when we installed the EVAC module, I'd have probably gone for it over the extra EVAC, mainly for ensuring extended outage coverage. It wouldn't have been all that much more $. But with the price at the time it made little sense.

We've had another three grid outages this month, totalling over 12 hours. A longer outage is kind of inevitable.

Plus a bit of extra capacity if we have some heavy aircon usage over summer when family are staying.

 

[wattmatters]

I also just switched to OVO & get 3 free hours between 11am & 2pm every day & 8 cents from midnight to 6am.

You did well to get that as OVO recently (in the last week or two) removed this offer from market.

You can still get the 3-hours free OR the 8c/kWh overnight but not both together.

 

[Corindikev]

Essential needs to look at increasing the export limit on TOU basis so during peak times increase it to 10kW or no limit at all. Then again that would need a smarter limiting device. If it isn't in their future plans, it should be.

 

[wattmatters]

Essential needs to look at increasing the export limit on TOU basis so during peak times increase it to 10kW or no limit at all. Then again that would need a smarter limiting device. If it isn't in their future plans, it should be.

They are in the process of moving towards variable export limits similar to what operates elsewhere (e.g. in VIC).

https://www.essentialenergy.com.au/-/media/Project/EssentialEnergy/Website/Files/At-Home/Flexible-export-limits-fact-sheet.pdf?rev=801abd1616f34a34acf65bdf4cea11c4

It sounds good in theory but in practice the implementation of it elsewhere has been a fustercluck.

The system defaults to the minimum (which might be zero or 1 kW export) whenever there is a comms or server issue. And they have constant issues.

This is problematic for a number of reasons. Small problem with your internet? Sorry no export for you. People stuck with systems that should but cannot export because the DNSP servers are not capable of reliably communicating with thousands of PV systems.

Also if the limit is set to the minimum (which could well be common in the middle of a sunny day) then it means smart EV charging with excess solar may not work for many people as the chargers need to see a minimum export level before they will commence a charge session.

 

[davemc]

Most of Vic are Smart Meters as well, I prefer flat rate then TOU myself.

I looked at sums with the 3 free vs EV plan now rates lower.
3 free works for me normally one of the three EV's home.
Over last 12 months done 3559 kWh in free time and 5779 kWh outside.
Why I like to look at V2G as well if it was like AU$4-5k no battery needed.
Although nothing out and neither MG or Tesla seem interested.

So 24kW/5kW Inverter $12ish and maybe add DC later if allowed and down to $2k ish.
At the moment still just under $4k which is more then an extra 8kWh battery.