Vanarama Issues

Babylon

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It just dawned on me that I originally went to the Vanarama deal from a link in This thread, Was just wondering if anyone that went for the LeaseLoco deal has had there car.
 

kevkdg

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The agreement from Hitachi says the following:

You maybe aware of the global shortage of computer chips which has resulted in delays in the production of vehicles and
caused manufacturers to refuse to guarantee that the vehicle price will not change between the time we order the vehicle and
when we pay for and take delivery of the vehicle. We calculate the rental amount based on the quoted price of the vehicle at
the time we order the vehicle. If the manufacturer increases the quoted price, we will pass that increase on to you by increasing
the rental amount. If you do not want to pay the increased amount, we will terminate the Hire Agreement at no cost to you.

Please see clause 2.2 of the Hire Agreement for more information.

Seems like they are within their right to increase the price.
BUT the manufacturer hasn't increased the price of the vehicle. Losing the grant is a different scenario as the manufacturer were not offering the grant but the government. So the price paid to MG is the same regardless.

HOWEVER, my Nov 2021 Hitachi agreement states this in section 2.2:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.2 The sums payable under this Agreement have been calculated on the assumptions that there will be no change in: the estimated purchase price of the Vehicle quoted by the manufacturer or supplier at the time we placed the order for the Vehicle, import duty, tax law or practice or the rates of taxation or capital allowances or any other change which adversely affects our net after tax rate of return on our investment in the Vehicle. If these assumptions are or become incorrect and we have not delivered the Vehicle to you, you may terminate this Agreement; or if you wish to take delivery of the Vehicle, we will be entitled to increase the Rentals to compensate us
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above one could I guess include the loss of government grant, and I also note that they use the phrase "YOU may terminate" as opposed to "WE will terminate". That could mean the difference between paying for the charger or not.

@MG ONE - I wonder does your contract not have a section 2.2. the same as mine. What date is your contract?
 

Babylon

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The agreement from Hitachi says the following:

You maybe aware of the global shortage of computer chips which has resulted in delays in the production of vehicles and
caused manufacturers to refuse to guarantee that the vehicle price will not change between the time we order the vehicle and
when we pay for and take delivery of the vehicle. We calculate the rental amount based on the quoted price of the vehicle at
the time we order the vehicle. If the manufacturer increases the quoted price, we will pass that increase on to you by increasing
the rental amount. If you do not want to pay the increased amount, we will terminate the Hire Agreement at no cost to you.

Please see clause 2.2 of the Hire Agreement for more information.

Seems like they are within their right to increase the price.
So when did the price go up, Cos I ordered the car in November, But people are saying that someone, Whoever the hell it is ordered the cars in January, So I would want to know when my car was ordered.
 

NickHeynes

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So Vanarama are quoting build/delivery times for June 2022 orders to be the same as November 2021 orders. It's almost like they or MG have reset the clock on all orders placed to date.

I'd be interested to know the monthly price, upfront payment and mileage allowance for latter orders that were not ever subject to the grant for comparison purposes against the revised figure those that had the grant are now getting.
Mine is 1x 47 @ £399 for 15KPA + free charger
Obvs didn't get the grant
Novuna which is Hitachi has the same clauses. But doesn't mention chip shortages , just changes in price or extended lead times.
Both parties can terminate for those reasons
 

kevkdg

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Mine is 1x 47 @ £399 for 15KPA + free charger
Obvs didn't get the grant
Novuna which is Hitachi has the same clauses. But doesn't mention chip shortages , just changes in price or extended lead times.
Both parties can terminate for those reasons
The difference is that if you terminate you are liable for reimbursing the cost of the charger, if they terminate then I guess you're not liable.

My Hitachi contract doesn't mention chip shortages and seems to allow for monthly increases based on any number of factors, and that if you're not happy then you terminate rather then them.

Where as the earlier post where the contract mentions chip shortages, it is very specific about what cost increases could trigger a monthly increase in payments (and this all seems to be around a manufacturers price increase and therefore not a loss of Government grant) and also states if you're not happy THEY will cancel the contract, which in my mind lets you off reimbursing the charger cost.
 

BugEyed

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I'd be amazed if Vanarama don't have similar contractual terms, and hence can legally break the contract. But they should be wary of doing so when the issues appear to have been of their own making:
  • failing to lock in prices by accepting leasing contracts without ordering the product
  • failing to lock in the Government grant by failing to order promptly
  • failing to get in the queue for delivery that has become extended due to global issues
I'd suggest asking for confirmation of your deal at present and if you are unhappy with the changes going to the press to trash their reputation.
 

kevkdg

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I'd be amazed if Vanarama don't have similar contractual terms, and hence can legally break the contract. But they should be wary of doing so when the issues appear to have been of their own making:
  • failing to lock in prices by accepting leasing contracts without ordering the product
  • failing to lock in the Government grant by failing to order promptly
  • failing to get in the queue for delivery that has become extended due to global issues
I'd suggest asking for confirmation of your deal at present and if you are unhappy with the changes going to the press to trash their reputation.
These are Vanarama terms, your contract is with the various finance companies they use.
 

am84

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This is my order and this is it to order today .
2E402C53-D978-476A-A63A-1B59B1A71132.png
 

Member 9500

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A Message From Vanarama CEO Andy Alderson

Many of our MG customers have recently received a communication from us regarding production delays and price increases. The vehicles impacted were ordered in some cases within the last few months and in others as long ago as last year, with anticipated delivery now moving into 2023. Clearly we understand that this is extremely frustrating, and I want to apologise for any inconvenience caused and shed some light on why this has happened.
Many of the affected MG orders were placed in the Autumn / Winter of 2021.For orders placed before the 14th December 2021, the vehicles were eligible for a £2,500 Government Grant which has been claimed against every order.

For orders placed between 15th December 2021 and the 14th June 2022, the lower grant value of £1,500 has been claimed against all eligible vehicles. These grants were factored into the pricing against those orders.For those orders placed in late 2021, most were due to come through in Spring 2022. However, earlier this year we were informed by MG UK these cars were now coming through in Autumn 2022. In the past two weeks, it has materialised that due to the ongoing supply chain issues impacting most vehicle manufacturers across the globe, the latest delivery forecast from MG UK is Spring 2023.

The automotive sector is suffering from what can only be described as “Long Covid” the shortage of semi-conductors, precious metals and components that excised before we came into 2022, has been exacerbated by the situation in the Ukraine, with both Russia and the Ukraine itself, being responsible for the production of a lot of the rare metals that go into Electric Vehicles.

The impact of this and other supply constraints is so great, that UK car registrations will likely be something like 900,000-1m fewer than in 2019.

Naturally these shortages make everything more difficult and it’s really frustrating for all concerned, especially when it impacts costs at a time when the price of pretty much everything is going up.

The price increases communicated, specifically come from the eligibility criteria for the Government Grant applied to each order. The Office for Zero Emission Vehicles (OZEV) has a 12-month time limit against grant claims and their guidance states “This is provided that within 12 months of the date the order is placed, the vehicle is registered and has been delivered to the customer”. So, whilst our MG orders currently have the grant applied, we have to anticipate from the latest information we’ve received from MG UK that the grants won’t be honoured by OZEV. Whilst we have explored protecting as many customers as we can from these increases it’s not possible for us to bear the costs as a business and we are now contacting customers as quickly as we can to give them the opportunity to make the right choice for them.

The BVRLA ( our trade body) is currently discussing the situation with OZEV and has requested an extension to the grant for any orders that go beyond a 12-month lead time. Please note, this applies to all electric vehicles that were eligible for the Government Grant, not just MG. So far, no decision has been made by OZEV on this and we have to presume that any cars eligible for the grant that are likely to go beyond 12 months from the point of order, will have the subsidy removed. Of course, if the grant deadline is extended by OZEV, we will ensure any eligible customers will have that reflected in the price of their lease deal.
We appreciate this is a frustrating situation for all our impacted customers, but we want to be completely transparent regarding the situation and explain why we’ve been left with no choice but to increase our prices on the basis we believe the vehicles will no longer benefit from the grant, which in turn has increased the cost of these vehicles.
For customers contacted regarding increased rentals, the associated costs applied to your lease amounts to the overall grant value applicable at the time you ordered the car, being applied across the term of your lease to cover the shortfall that has been enforced upon us due to the grant being withdrawn.

To be really clear we are not benefitting in any way shape or form, and if the BVRLA is successful in getting OZEV to honour the grant, this will be applied to all orders as intended.

We do completely understand the frustrations of each, and every customer impacted by these production delays and the subsequent cost increases, however, we do hope the information above goes some way in explaining the difficult situation that the Government’s decision has created in the midst of a global production crisis.

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience caused and want to assure you that my team and I are doing all we can to mitigate the impact.



Andy Alderson
Founder & Ceo Vanarama
 
Last edited:

Babylon

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Waffle Waffle Waffle.
Is this what they call going into damage limitation mode.
What a crock of, It's not possible for us to bear the cost but perfectly fine for us to expect you too, And by the way,You may get your car by next spring,Or you may not, We have fobbed you of for this long so no reason why we can't continue to feed you a line.
I live on an island and I've seen loads of MG EVs pop up in the last month's and weeks,The only company not getting MG's seems to be Vanarama.
What is poor is that not 2 weeks ago they were giving a 5-6 month wait ,That has now gone up to 8-10, So have already once again mislead god knows how many, So even tho they already had people that had been waiting 8 months they thought it was ok to take more orders and almost straight away jack up the wait time.
If they can't supply the car in a timely manner then they should withdraw it from lease, But no doubt a contract signed is as good as a sale.
This was my first lease, And the only person that seems to be out of both time and money is me.
 

BugEyed

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Strange how the loss of the OZEV grant is born entirely by the first "owner" of the vehicle. I call BS. Residuals increased the moment that the grant was removed, even on my Wife's 8 year old LEAF.
There's another factor at work here. Whether it is that Vanarama have seen the opportunity to lease the same asset for more money and are just trying it on is not clear, but you can guarantee that if prices had dropped they'd be holding people to the existing contracts.
 

Lovemyev

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A number of dealers have done just that - their reasoning hasn't been published but I'd assume it relates to doing the right thing and maintaining their reputation. Large companies with big marketing budgets can afford the same even if football has to suffer.
This statement from CEO of Vanarama spells out clearly that they do not intend to bridge any cost gaps at all.
"So, whilst our MG orders currently have the grant applied, we have to anticipate from the latest information we’ve received from MG UK that the grants won’t be honoured by OZEV. Whilst we have explored protecting as many customers as we can from these increases it’s not possible for us to bear the costs as a business and we are now contacting customers as quickly as we can to give them the opportunity to make the right choice for them.
We appreciate this is a frustrating situation for all our impacted customers, but we want to be completely transparent regarding the situation and explain why we’ve been left with no choice but to increase our prices on the basis we believe the vehicles will no longer benefit from the grant, which in turn has increased the cost of these vehicles.
For customers contacted regarding increased rentals, the associated costs applied to your lease amounts to the overall grant value applicable at the time you ordered the car, being applied across the term of your lease to cover the shortfall that has been enforced upon us due to the grant being withdrawn".
Again, main dealers are prioritising it's own customer base, due to the very few cars they are receiving from MG.
It is clear that Vanarama can see this HAPPENING and therefore suppling its customers is becoming almost impossible to achieve and with little indication that things are not going to improve, any time soon.
 

AndyMG1

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A Message From Vanarama CEO Andy Alderson

Many of our MG customers have recently received a communication from us regarding production delays and price increases. The vehicles impacted were ordered in some cases within the last few months and in others as long ago as last year, with anticipated delivery now moving into 2023. Clearly we understand that this is extremely frustrating, and I want to apologise for any inconvenience caused and shed some light on why this has happened.
Many of the affected MG orders were placed in the Autumn / Winter of 2021.For orders placed before the 14th December 2021, the vehicles were eligible for a £2,500 Government Grant which has been claimed against every order.

For orders placed between 15th December 2021 and the 14th June 2022, the lower grant value of £1,500 has been claimed against all eligible vehicles. These grants were factored into the pricing against those orders.For those orders placed in late 2021, most were due to come through in Spring 2022. However, earlier this year we were informed by MG UK these cars were now coming through in Autumn 2022. In the past two weeks, it has materialised that due to the ongoing supply chain issues impacting most vehicle manufacturers across the globe, the latest delivery forecast from MG UK is Spring 2023.

The automotive sector is suffering from what can only be described as “Long Covid” the shortage of semi-conductors, precious metals and components that excised before we came into 2022, has been exacerbated by the situation in the Ukraine, with both Russia and the Ukraine itself, being responsible for the production of a lot of the rare metals that go into Electric Vehicles.

The impact of this and other supply constraints is so great, that UK car registrations will likely be something like 900,000-1m fewer than in 2019.

Naturally these shortages make everything more difficult and it’s really frustrating for all concerned, especially when it impacts costs at a time when the price of pretty much everything is going up.

The price increases communicated, specifically come from the eligibility criteria for the Government Grant applied to each order. The Office for Zero Emission Vehicles (OZEV) has a 12-month time limit against grant claims and their guidance states “This is provided that within 12 months of the date the order is placed, the vehicle is registered and has been delivered to the customer”. So, whilst our MG orders currently have the grant applied, we have to anticipate from the latest information we’ve received from MG UK that the grants won’t be honoured by OZEV. Whilst we have explored protecting as many customers as we can from these increases it’s not possible for us to bear the costs as a business and we are now contacting customers as quickly as we can to give them the opportunity to make the right choice for them.

The BVRLA ( our trade body) is currently discussing the situation with OZEV and has requested an extension to the grant for any orders that go beyond a 12-month lead time. Please note, this applies to all electric vehicles that were eligible for the Government Grant, not just MG. So far, no decision has been made by OZEV on this and we have to presume that any cars eligible for the grant that are likely to go beyond 12 months from the point of order, will have the subsidy removed. Of course, if the grant deadline is extended by OZEV, we will ensure any eligible customers will have that reflected in the price of their lease deal.
We appreciate this is a frustrating situation for all our impacted customers, but we want to be completely transparent regarding the situation and explain why we’ve been left with no choice but to increase our prices on the basis we believe the vehicles will no longer benefit from the grant, which in turn has increased the cost of these vehicles.
For customers contacted regarding increased rentals, the associated costs applied to your lease amounts to the overall grant value applicable at the time you ordered the car, being applied across the term of your lease to cover the shortfall that has been enforced upon us due to the grant being withdrawn.

To be really clear we are not benefitting in any way shape or form, and if the BVRLA is successful in getting OZEV to honour the grant, this will be applied to all orders as intended.

We do completely understand the frustrations of each, and every customer impacted by these production delays and the subsequent cost increases, however, we do hope the information above goes some way in explaining the difficult situation that the Government’s decision has created in the midst of a global production crisis.

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience caused and want to assure you that my team and I are doing all we can to mitigate the impact.



Andy Alderson
Founder & Ceo Vanarama
I ordered before the 14th December so does that mean the grant applied? Bit confused.
 

dmcn

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Vanarama still haven’t given any explanation as to why cars ordered through other dealers (post Jan/Feb 22) have arrived, yet not one of their cars has arrived and are now being delayed for another 7-8 months.
Also no explanation as to why they are quoting the same timescale for an order placed now when original orders are looking at 16 months!
 

BugEyed

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I ordered before the 14th December so does that mean the grant applied? Bit confused.
It should mean that you benefit from the £2,500 grant, but in theory if your delivery isn't within 12 months of the order then the grant will not apply. But it doesn't follow that the residual value will not have increased due to the loss of the grant. Vanarama are "having their cake and eating it".
Apparently one of Vanarama's core values is:
"We deliver what we promise with HIPE (Honesty, Integrity, Passion & Energy)".
They aren't practicing what they claim, clearly not a company to do business with.

Edited to correct quote.
 

MG ONE

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Vanarama are liars. The problem is there is nothing we can do. When the car industry does improve in say 1-2 years time I will NEVER order from vanarama. Such a waste of time they are. It's a shame as the car is a good car and cheap also.
 

cvsmjd

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I think the problem stems from the cars not being ordered by MG / Greenhous until January, so most of the models except the SE LR were exempt from claiming the government grant. I said this could be a problem earlier in the shipping thread. When I found out my Nov order was according to MG registered in January.
This is from the shipping thread
"
Yes i have read that before as well but its crazy how two companies have different dates on their systems but that does not surprise me

I am not cancelling my order. There are people getting cars that placed their orders after november but those orders probably are logged by MG as December or November rather than late Jan somehow

The grants will remain right? I read an earlier message about the confusion around Vanarama order dates. Seem to recall Greenhous had proof the orders were placed with MG in November, yet MG have January on their system!

I have my charger installed, I will not cancel, if Vanarama cancel I assume we keep the charger? If Vanarama play silly buggers and keep delaying delivery when it is clear other lease companies are delivering, then that in my mind would be game playing to get people to cancel and then have to pay for their chargers.

Having said all that, I believe the delays are genuine and that we will get the car eventually.
Click to expand...
That could be the problem, I think I am right in saying that the grants would not have been available on the Trophy or Connect in Jan 2023.
This could be a problem for Vanarama if they were asked to find an additional £2.5k per car and therefore potentially for us. Since we have a lease we have a contract from Vanarama to supply the car at a set agreed monthly cost. However not sure where we stand if Vanarama choose to cancel that contract"

Either Vanarama had not worked this out or were hoping more of us would cancel with the increasing delays. It now looks to me that it's Vanarama's intention to run down the clock. It would not surprise me at all if Vanarama has not deliberately extended delivery times to over 12months to get themselves off the hook.
 

BugEyed

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The statement from Vanarama fails to confirm whether they had placed firm orders with MG by the appropriate deadlines for all of the orders that they had received by those times. At the moment it's not possible to say whether that's deliberate obfuscation or just implied - perhaps @Vanarama would like to clear that up? 🙏
 
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