New small Tesla

[FiferMG4]

Maybe I am the idiot, but I think the market demands affordable electric cars in the segments people have always been buying cars in. And unfortunately right now it's the Chinese who offer them.

I must be an idiot too, as that’s exactly how I feel. On a related note, I don’t understand why Japanese car (my preferred brands for petrol cars) manufacturers have not anticipated the demand for electric cars and adjusted their strategy accordingly. They will continue to lose market share to Tesla and the likes of BYD, MG and others if they don’t get their act together.

 

[Cocijo]

Yes - it’s bizarre how Toyota for example, are so late to the market and not even remotely competitive in price.

 

[Deleted member 10041]

Nissan kind of stood still for a good while after being in early with the original leaf

 

[tsedge]

Yes - it’s bizarre how Toyota for example, are so late to the market and not even remotely competitive in price.

The Japanese were betting on hydrogen fuel cells.

 

[FiferMG4]

Nissan kind of stood still for a good while after being in early with the original leaf

Why on earth they didn’t capitalize on that early lead is very puzzling. I did look at the newest iteration of the Leaf, but the cheapest model (£28,995) comparable to the SE Long Range price has only a 39kWh battery with a WLTP combined cycle range of up to168 miles. If I want to get close to the 280 miles of the MG4 long range, I’d have to pay £34,945 for a range of up to 239 miles for the Leaf e+ N-Connecta model. Not very appealing.

 

[bowfer]

Why on earth they didn’t capitalize on that early lead is very puzzling. I did look at the newest iteration of the Leaf, but the cheapest model (£28,995) comparable to the SE Long Range price has only a 39kWh battery with a WLTP combined cycle range of up to168 miles. If I want to get close to the 280 miles of the MG4 long range, I’d have to pay £34,945 for a range of up to 239 miles for the Leaf e+ N-Connecta model. Not very appealing.

Can’t comment on the long range models of each, but can on the standard range models.
The Leaf is a lot more efficient than the 4.
Despite the bigger battery of the 4 I’m struggling to get the same miles as the Leaf.
Example, I charged to 100% last night and I’m showing 139 miles to empty, and that’s been me driving gently.
Quite frankly, pathetic.
The Leaf bettered that even in the depths of winter, and easily did 150-160 hard driven miles in summer.

Buying any new car unless you’re in an exceptional market (which has now ended) comes with a huge cost in terms of depreciation.
Good advice is; don’t buy a new car if you don’t want to lose a lot on the purchase cost.
Early adopters of EV’s are also paying a premium. So there are two big factors that mean sooner or later you’re going to take a big hit on your new car value.
As cheaper models of EV’s, offering good range (which is key), emerge, the used EV market will also be further affected.
The current cost of EV’s is being held artificially high by manufacturers (not offering any discounts) because they can get away with it at the moment. As cheaper competitors come along new prices will fall and discounts will filter back in.
The crazy high cost of rapid charging is also a factor that makes EV‘s reliant on DC network charging no cheaper to run than a good ICE.
The fictitious service requirements for an EV, built in by the industry to try to protect revenue, also adds in unnecessary running costs.
More price disruptors like the MG4 can only be a good thing.

Who are these people who ‘buy’ EVs?
The percentage of people doing so is tiny.

 

[FiferMG4]

Can’t comment on the long range models of each, but can on the standard range models.
The Leaf is a lot more efficient than the 4.
Despite the bigger battery of the 4 I’m struggling to get the same miles as the Leaf.
Example, I charged to 100% last night and I’m showing 139 miles to empty, and that’s been me driving gently.
Quite frankly, pathetic.
The Leaf bettered that even in the depths of winter, and easily did 150-160 hard driven miles in summer.

There’s definitely something not right with your car Bowfer. I know you’ve been having troubles with it since you first took ownership. You certainly should be getting a better range than 139 miles in the milder temps we’ve been getting, especially if you’re driving it gently.

 

[siteguru]

Just checked the app for mine ... 100% SoC and 173 miles on the GoM (6°C ambient).

 

[Eber]

The current cost of EV’s is being held artificially high by manufacturers (not offering any discounts) because they can get away with it at the moment.

Exactly. Elon didn't lower the prices by thousands of Pounds/Euros, because he is such a nice guy. And he is still making a massive profit, which gives you an idea how overpriced the cars were before.

 

[Cocijo]

Who are these people who ‘buy’ EVs?
The percentage of people doing so is tiny.

The most popular way into a new car is to buy it using a PCP.

 

[Macadoodle]

There’s definitely something not right with your car Bowfer. I know you’ve been having troubles with it since you first took ownership. You certainly should be getting a better range than 139 miles in the milder temps we’ve been getting, especially if you’re driving it gently.

139 is pretty low for the ever optimistic GOM. Did a 100% balance on my SR 4 days ago, promised 202 miles .
Drove it fairly briskly and just got to 160 miles at 5 % this eve after a cautious run to a LIDL 4 miles distant, now back on charge on the driveway.
180 miles might well be possible driving for efficiency but I really don't care .

 

[bowfer]

The most popular way into a new car is to buy it using a PCP.

I know, that’s what I was intimating.

Nissan kind of stood still for a good while after being in early with the original leaf

Nissan is a strange one.
The Leaf is still a great EV, really doesn’t drive any worse than the 4 ( I’ve owned both ), only the dated interior lets it down.
But no sign of a new one is bizarre.
Also the Ariya is a sales disaster because it’s hopelessly overpriced.
Rumour is they’ve barely sold any, I’ve certainly not seen a single one in affluent Aberdeen where EVs are really taking hold.

 

[nbenn]

I'm getting about 180 miles real world from my SE. I'd drive on Eco with low regen. About 6degress avg temp at the moment near me. I'd be annoyed with 139 too. I like only having to charge once a week mostly.

 

[Macadoodle]

The Leaf is still a great EV, really doesn’t drive any worse than the 4 ( I’ve owned both ), only the dated interior lets it down.

I have a 2014 leaf sitting in the weeds at the side of the garage, we ran it for a couple of years as a school run / shopping trolley taking advantage of the free public charging while it lasted.

Tekna spec, very pleasant seats, good sound system but I really didn't like driving it.
Low geared numb steering, bone shaking ride, cheap torsion beam rear end, 110hp.
It was fine sitting on a dual carriageway but I don't do much of that, the 4 is like sports car in comparison IMO.

 

[bowfer]

I'm getting about 180 miles real world from my SE. I'd drive on Eco with low regen. About 6degress avg temp at the moment near me. I'd be annoyed with 139 too. I like only having to charge once a week mostly.

To be fair I’d be annoyed if driving around in ECO only got me 180 miles.
I hate ECO in any car.

 

[bowfer]

I have a 2014 leaf sitting in the weeds at the side of the garage, we ran it for a couple of years as a school run / shopping trolley taking advantage of the free public charging while it lasted.

Tekna spec, very pleasant seats, good sound system but I really didn't like driving it.
Low geared numb steering, bone shaking ride, cheap torsion beam rear end, 110hp.
It was fine sitting on a dual carriageway but I don't do much of that, the 4 is like sports car in comparison IMO.

Comparing the mk1 leaf with a 4 is apples and oranges.
The mk2 leaf is miles better than the mk1, I’ve owned both (Tekna 24KW and Acenta 40KW)
They sorted the steering ratio for the mk2 for starters.
Anyone saying the 4 drives markedly better than a mk2 leaf is absolutely full of it.
Not much difference in performance, the 150bhp 40KW Leaf is a good bit lighter than the 4, so the extra 20bhp of the 4 is negated somewhat.
In terms of exterior looks, the 4 wins.
In terms of interior, the 4 wins hands down and it was that alone that made me switch.
I got bored of an analogue speedo and small centre screen with awful graphics in the Leaf.
Driving dynamics though, little difference.
My ideal EV would be the ultimate reliability and ‘sortedness’ of the Leaf combined with the looks and interior of the 4.

 

[Macadoodle]

Anyone saying the 4 drives markedly better than a mk2 leaf is absolutely full of it.
Driving dynamics though, little difference.

I've only had experience of the pre facelift leaf, understand the steering was sharpened up for the later one.
Doubt that would do much to convince me though, the relative purity of the admittedly still low on feel steering in the 4 is streets ahead of any FWD car IMO. Ideally geared for a road car too.
The suspension is excellent, supple but taut, really quite sophisticated multi- link rear end, RWD and 50 / 50 weight distribution.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[TheHypnoToad]

I must be an idiot too, as that’s exactly how I feel. On a related note, I don’t understand why Japanese car (my preferred brands for petrol cars) manufacturers have not anticipated the demand for electric cars and adjusted their strategy accordingly. They will continue to lose market share to Tesla and the likes of BYD, MG and others if they don’t get their act together.

The Honda E while being pretty expensive is quite a nice car, but I agree it does seem like there have been missed oppurtunities with most Japanese manufacterers.

 

[bowfer]

I've only had experience of the pre facelift leaf, understand the steering was sharpened up for the later one.
Doubt that would do much to convince me though, the relative purity of the admittedly still low on feel steering in the 4 is streets ahead of any FWD car IMO. Ideally geared for a road car too.
The suspension is excellent, supple but taught , really quite sophisticated multi- link rear end, RWD and 50 / 50 weight distribution.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

All theory, no practical experience of a mk2 leaf v 4.
Okey dokey!

 

[Macadoodle]

All theory, no practical experience of a mk2 leaf v 4.
Okey dokey!

Absolutely, all speculation on my part The transformation you speak of has intrigued me though, keen to drive one now and be wowed