V2G to be approved in Australia 2025

[gdog]

Not sure I'd agree with that

Oh! That’s that idea blown out of the water . I’m sure there must be work arounds but the 70% efficiency may be an issue. I estimate my home battery loose about 10% in battery to AC. If the capabilities were built into wall box. But not implemented until usable is what I was suggesting. I recall a podcast with the founder of Octopus that skirted over this subject

 

[wattmatters]

V2G won't be using the car's inverter.

It will need to be an approved inverter designed and approved for grid connection. Early models will be expensive but frankly it shouldn't cost a lot more than a regular hybrid grid-tied inverter which uses 400 V battery architecture and can talk with the car battery's BMS (the same as it would with a regular home battery, or DC charge stations do now).

We will see more integrated solutions with solar PV and home battery, along the lines of what Sigenergy have with their DC charger. That's capable of bidirectional but not approved as yet for reverse flow.

 

[agough]

Those aren't useable links; you've copied shortened versions.

Apologies replace ***s with ***********

 

[gdog]

V2G won't be using the car's inverter

We'll see. You sound certain do you know something?

Anyway I wouldn't hold my breath if it needs approval before design/manufacture. China would be our one hope of leading the way here as their government are capable of directing manufacture trends

 

[Everest]

Those aren't useable links; you've copied shortened versions.

Apologies replace ** s with ******

well that will fix it then !

 

[Everest]

We'll see. You sound certain do you know something?

For the reasons mentioned in my earlier posting I guess - complexity and efficiency.

It can be done using the car's inverter via V2L charging a home battery. That is great for handling power outages or supplementing home usage when the initial cost of the electricity is free (e.g. from solar charging or charging at times when the power company supplies electricity free or very very low cost). But, from what I have read, it is not commercially viable on a greater scale to go from AC -> DC -> AC -> DC -> AC as you only end up with 50% to 70% of the energy back as usable electricity.

Hence the need for bi-directional DC charging at home.

 

[Coulomb]

We'll see [ Re V2G won't use the car's OBC/inverter ]. You sound certain do you know something?

It still means you get to plug something into the car and it powers the house(s), just that the box the cable is connected to is bigger and more expensive than you might be hoping for.

 

[gdog]

I have no idea how it will pan out with VTH or VTG, but hope it will become possible at an affordable cost in not to distant future

 

[decrep]

If the powers that be are smart, they will give good incentives for V2G.
It will help with smoothing the grid.
Excess solar can go to the car when there's oversupply, and add to the grid when there's too much demand.

 

[Mal Sydney]

On the back of some surprisingly progressive news here about the V2G standard to be approved in Australia, what are everyone's thoughts about the future possibilities for the MG4?

Batteries on wheels: Australia to allow vehicle to grid installations by end of year

Bowen says that agreement on new standards means that EV owners will be able to use vehicle to grid technology - effectively using their cars as batteries on wheels - by the end of the year.

thedriven.io

I realise that you can already rig up something similar today using the MG4, V2L and an inverter generator input under some circumstances, but I'm hoping this standard might mean other mainstream options may be released.

The chance of MG releasing any kind of software update to enable for V2G to existing cars is probably zero. But I'm thinking maybe in future a wall charger with V2G compliance could simulate a disconnect and reconnect as V2L to switch the existing connection over from charging to discharging?

Since here in sunny WA, the daytime solar FIT is 2c/kWh (odd how they still charge everyone else over 31c/kWh for usage at the same time of day?), it would be great to be able seamlessly shift that cheap power into the evening.

I met a technical manager for MG on their stand at the Sydney Everything Electric show in March. Apparently V2G is "being looked at"
One issue is the reduced battery life by running it through more cycles; and how that impacts the warranty.

Interestingly I asked an electrician about powering your house during a storm induced blackout. For a fee you can have a 240v adaptor fitted to your incoming wiring / meter box that is powered by a petrol generator. Activating it disconnects the house from the grid and you run modest loads from the generator. But ANY power source can act as petrol generator including my MG4. Maybe $800-$1000.

 

[Tig170]

I met a technical manager for MG on their stand at the Sydney Everything Electric show in March. Apparently V2G is "being looked at"
One issue is the reduced battery life by running it through more cycles; and how that impacts the warranty.

Interestingly I asked an electrician about powering your house during a storm induced blackout. For a fee you can have a 240v adaptor fitted to your incoming wiring / meter box that is powered by a petrol generator. Activating it disconnects the house from the grid and you run modest loads from the generator. But ANY power source can act as petrol generator including my MG4. Maybe $800-$1000.

Around the world, most people use a VE Quattro type system.

 

[wattmatters]

But ANY power source can act as petrol generator including my MG4. Maybe $800-$1000.

It needs to be compatible with the safety systems for the home and the power source.

Plug my generator into the home's power inlet and flip the transfer switch to isolate from the grid, no problems, generator powers the home. Same with an off-grid inverter designed for it.

Try it with the car's V2L though and the car will shut down discharge as it detects an earth current fault.

This can be worked around by a qualified professional but you can't just assume a car's V2L will operate the same as a generator to power a home.

 

[decrep]

I've just registered for a home battery subsidy.

Here's the info that came back.

• Applications for rebates and loans under the WA Battery Scheme are not open yet.
• No further action needs to be taken by interested applicants.
• No battery suppliers or installers have yet been selected for involvement in the WA Battery Scheme.
• A list of approved equipment for the WA Battery Scheme is still to be confirmed.
• Batteries installed before the commencement of the WA Battery Scheme will not be eligible for rebate or loan funding.

By 1 July 2025, the WA Government will be offering 20,000 rebates for residential batteries of up to $5,000 for Synergy customers and up to $7,500 for Horizon Power customers, with the value to be determined by the size of the battery.

The battery rebate for up to 19,000 Synergy customers will be $500 per kilowatt hour (kWh) for up to 10 kWh of battery capacity. Up to 1,000 Horizon Power customers will be eligible for rebates of $750 per kWh for up to 10 kWh of battery capacity. Batteries with a larger capacity than 10kWh, that are on the approved equipment list (to be confirmed), are eligible for the maximum rebate of $5000 or $7500. The national average battery size is between 12-13 kWh.

A similar number of no interest loans of up to $10,000 will also be made available to assist lower to middle income households to take part in the scheme.

The scheme will be rolled out in several rounds, commencing on or before 1 July 2025, and will be administered by a third-party service provider with appropriate capability and expertise in the delivery of similar schemes.

If you are considering purchasing a household battery and would like information about the battery scheme as it becomes available, please sign up to register your interest as an applicant.

 

[wattmatters]

By 1 July 2025

Doesn't sound too far off, and should align with the federal battery incentive.

In NSW we already have the NSW PDRS, so we are just waiting for confirmation of the federal scheme also expected from 1 July.

Installers of course now have nothing to do until then.

I did a deal with mine - we've installed the PV half of my new system, and we'll do the battery half once we have all the details.

 

[decrep]

That's what they are telling me, install new system now, and sort battery later.
My current inverter won't work with their batteries.
So I'm getting a quote for a new 6kw system, my mate says he'll buy the old 3kw system, we just have to find somebody to install it.

 

[BeamingJim]

I've just registered for a home battery subsidy.

I'm also closely watching this since here in WA we should be able to apply for both state and federal rebates, meaning potentially $5k off plus 30% off (though it's not yet clear if the 30% off will be before or after WA rebate).

Problem is most existing solar only installations will likely need a replacement inverter, and since V2G is still very early days, the new inverter might not offer that feature. (I know some inverters do have EV charger features, and claim to be firmware upgradable for future V2G, but that's a gamble on compatibility, plus you pay a hefty premium for it currently).

I'm hopeful I can at least get an addon battery system with a generator input to allow me to top up the battery using V2L from the MG4.

 

[decrep]

I'll have a good talk to the guys, and see about charging the battery from V2L.
I don't think I'll wait for V2G, I'll go with what's available now.


I'm a bit wary about what's happening in the Eastern States with their batteries being reportedly drained to 5%, then having to buy back at peak rates.

 

[BeamingJim]

Totally agree, you'd want to read the fine print on any virtual power plant (VPP) conditions attached to a new battery install. I've no objection to emergency grid stabilisation use, but any other draw down by power companies needs to be either within the owners control, or rewarded at market rates during peak demand.

Of course, here in WA, we don't get to choose our provider, so we either accept the terms, or go without

 

[wattmatters]

In general, VPPs suck. Too heavily weighted in favour of the VPP operator. The better option in eastern states if not using a regular retail plan (of which there are hundreds to choose from) is to go on a wholesale trading option like Amber Electric or Local Volts and then have automations manage the system.

In WA I think just right sizing solar PV and battery for your current and expected future demand is the way to go. You don't really have much of a market so to speak. Just go on the Synergy time of use plan, and if it's cloudy day such that the battery hasn't charged up from solar PV then charge from grid with cheap daytime energy, enough to get through the evening/night peak period.

 

[BeamingJim]

Thanks wattmatters, that's good advice. The Synergy time of day plan was pretty bad for my current situation (solar only), but once I have the battery, it's definitely worth looking into again.