UK domestic socket charging

[Rip Van]

As far as I understand, the 2.5mm cable is a 30A ring main cable. The 1.5mm should be protected by a 13A fuse.
2.5mm cable may not fit some of the plugs and sockets.

You can get it. E.G. a 3 bar (3kW) fire would probably have it.

You can get it. E.G. a 3 bar (3kW) fire would probably have it.

...but I'd be looking for a made up, uk dom three pin to type 2 EV cable.

 

[APMG]

From Tough Cables reply to me they say;

Why do posts on many on-line forums say that only 2.5mm² flex should be used?​

The 1.5mmsq vs 2.5mmsq flex debate seems to be the most common one with regards to EV leads on on-line forums, and sadly the most uninformed. For lengths of up to 20m, our advice is that the 1.5mmsq flex used in all of our leads is the best option for the following reasons (apologies for getting rather technical!):

• BS 1363-1:1995 A4:2012 the British Standard for 13A plugs, specifically states that flex must not exceed 1.5mm² with the line ‘having nominal conductor cross-sectional areas not exceeding 1.5 mm²’. Therefore, other than manufacturer fitted moulded plugs, 2.5 mm² flex should not be terminated in a 13A plug.
• The IET Code of Practice for portable appliance testing allows a safe max length for 1.5mmsq flex without an RCD of 15m, and 30m with an RCD. When PAT testing an extension lead you check for the resistance of the earth- a 15m 1.5mm² lead would be within the 0.2 ohm limit. Voltage drop on the same lead would be calculated according to the wiring regulations as 5.17V, again well within the limit.
• The data sheets for 1.5mm² H07RN-F cable generally state a max current of 15A. If the cable is a sensible length, the manufacturers recommended max current is nowhere near exceeded.
• 1.5mm² H07RN-F rubber cables do not degrade over time if used up to the full 13A, as this is well within their safe load limit.
• In contrast, 2.5mm² is more expensive, heavier, and more challenging to manage.

 

[Rip Van]

From Tough Cables reply to me they say;

Why do posts on many on-line forums say that only 2.5mmsq flex should be used?​

The 1.5mmsq vs 2.5mmsq flex debate seems to be the most common one with regards to EV leads on on-line forums, and sadly the most uninformed. For lengths of up to 20m, our advice is that the 1.5mmsq flex used in all of our leads is the best option for the following reasons (apologies for getting rather technical!):

• BS 1363-1:1995 A4:2012 the British Standard for 13A plugs, specifically states that flex must not exceed 1.5mmsq with the line ‘having nominal conductor cross-sectional areas not exceeding 1.5 mmsq’. Therefore, other than manufacturer fitted moulded plugs, 2.5mmsq flex should not be terminated in a 13A plug.
• The IET Code of Practice for portable appliance testing allows a safe max length for 1.5mmsq flex without an RCD of 15m, and 30m with an RCD. When PAT testing an extension lead you check for the resistance of the earth- a 15m 1.5mmsq lead would be within the 0.2 ohm limit. Voltage drop on the same lead would be calculated according to the wiring regulations as 5.17v, again well within the limit.
• The data sheets for 1.5mmsq H07RN-F cable generally state a max current of 15A. If the cable is a sensible length, the manufacturers recommended max current is nowhere near exceeded.
• 1.5mmsq H07RN-F rubber cables do not degrade over time if used up to the full 13A, as this is well within their safe load limit.
• In contrast, 2.5mmsq is more expensive, heavier, and more challenging to manage.

Wouldn't touch a 20m 1.5mm² charging cable with a barge pole.?

 

[Yorkshire Hillbilly]

I've been using my MG supplied granny charger to charge my MG 4 for years with no problems at all.

My house is too far away from my council rented parking space and there's nowhere to put an outlet without a bollard being dug into the council's land. And I'm defiantly not going through planning permission when the person next to live here might not even be able to park in the same bay (there's a waiting list).

I just have an industrial 25m extension cable from the double garage / utility building (with its own separate consumer unit) terminating to a pair of outdoor sockets.
*the garage is inaccessible to vehicles
**I have one of them British Standard electric cable tray thingies for the path between my front hedge and the parking space

Sure, the granny changer plug is warm sometimes but nowhere near hot and neither are the plug sockets.

I have a tapo smart socket on the garage end for ease of use and counting the energy usage. The tapo socket has heat protection and the garage has RCD fuses.
*I use Home Assistant to automate the socket turning on every time I come home. If there's no energy usage when I open the door it turns back off again. It turns off after an hour of no usage or whenever I leave the house and there's no usage. And if the tapo plug overheats it turns off and trips the fire alarm.

The only time I ever had an issue was when my gardener accidentally hedge trimmed the extension cable. Luckily there was enough slack to rewire the plug sockets.

 

[mikgle]

I spoke with a local sparky and they said "Granny chargers only used for emergencies".

I am in a modern UK 2014 build, two circuits both with RCD in the consumer unit and still waiting until the 29th Octo for the install of my EV Charger.

I get the car tomorrow and thinking if I get one of those "tough cables" with the built in RCD in the cable to external plug on a 1.5 thick cable to a plug downstairs would be suitable?

Is the sparky just being over cautious (He hasn't seen my specifics and speaking from a general perspective)

Thanks

If your circuit supply is on a 30mA RCD there's no point in having another RCD. He's probably being over cautious in my opinion, I mean the car instructions don't say "only use in emergency" does it? In any case, you don't want to add an extra extension lead, the granny lead should be plugged straight into a fixed wiring socket, prefererably without a switch on it as this is a weak point.

If your circuit supply is on a 30mA RCD there's no point in having another RCD. He's probably being over cautious in my opinion, I mean the car instructions don't say "only use in emergency" does it? In any case, you don't want to add an extra extension lead, the granny lead should be plugged straight into a fixed wiring socket, prefererably without a switch on it as this is a weak point.

But I have to say, "in an emergency" I have used an extension lead just make it as short as possible, unwind it and make sure it is in good condition and rated at 13A not 10A..

 

[Mark Hewitt]

If your circuit supply is on a 30mA RCD there's no point in having another RCD. He's probably being over cautious in my opinion, I mean the car instructions don't say "only use in emergency" does it? In any case, you don't want to add an extra extension lead, the granny lead should be plugged straight into a fixed wiring socket, prefererably without a switch on it as this is a weak point.

The MG4 manual refers to the granny charger as the "emergency home charging kit".

 

[mikgle]

Wouldn't touch a 20m 1.5mm² charging cable with a barge pole.?

1.5mm² wire is fine on say a 15m extension lead but the volts drop means you get less power that's all and the resistance warms the plug.. I think the only reason why BS specify 1.5mm² wires is that a 2.5mm² flex would be too bulky to terminate to a standard 3 pin plug.
There are industrial alternatives eg my MG4 V2L cable is nominally 13A but the 2 metre flex diameter is huge and goes into a whopping moulded 3 pin socket .

The MG4 manual refers to the granny charger as the "emergency home charging kit".

Oh Well I stand corrected then. but if one doesn't have any other means of charging I would say it's classified as an emergency!

The MG4 manual refers to the granny charger as the "emergency home charging kit".

It does indeed! But if you read the appended 16 x Caution! notices, not one of them refers to using the aforesaid lead specifically, apart from sensible precautions concerning the domestic electrical infrastructure being checked. So the way I read it, after such checks are done it's ok to use.. no mention of charging times or number of uses. In any case, if no other charging option exists then surely that constitutes an emergency!?

You can get it. E.G. a 3 bar (3kW) fire would probably have it.


...but I'd be looking for a made up, uk dom three pin to type 2 EV cable.

What length?

 

[Rip Van]

1.5mm wire is fine on say a 15m extension lead but the volts drop means you get less power that's all and the resistance warms the plug.. I think the only reason why BS specify 1.5mm wires is that a 2.5mm flex would be too bulky to terminate to a standard 3 pin plug.
There are industrial alternatives eg my mg4 V2L cable is nominally 13A but the 2 metre flex diameter is huge and goes into a whopping moulded 3 pin socket .

I have 2.5mm² csa cable in three pin standard plugs, earth included but maybe a smaller core for the earth. I've never found it too hard to get the cores into the pins.? Each to their own.?

Oh Well I stand corrected then. but if one doesn't have any other means of charging I would say its classified as an emergency!

What length?

Take your pick. I've seen them at many different lengths. I think mine is 5m and fits under the false floor along with my foot pump and type 2 charging cable (5m). 20m might be a bit bulky though, if available.?

 

[gdog]

Coming into summer here, and our solar is now producing enough power to charge at 2.4kW instead of the current 1.4kW.

View attachment 31041
The vertical line is where the kettle went on, car was charging from 1115 to 1645. Green is solar export, yellow is solar use, brown is grid use

From dawn to 1100 is HWS being heated. and again from1330 to 1645


So if I had a wall box with adjustable charge rate, I could charge faster, between about 1000 to 1530.
This system was put in to control the hot water system, that only feeds power to the HWS when there is available solar. Can a wall box do the same? And will it conflict with the HWS? how do you assign priority

EV charging and DHW heating with solar can work with the right charger that is capable. You just set it up to charge EV when excess solar exceeds x kW. I use a Givenergy EVC because I have givenergy solar system, and it works pretty well. Many use Zappi EVC

 

[redwood98]

So, armed with info from this forum. Think I'm going to go for this.

View attachment 31105

View attachment 31106

View attachment 31107

Similar to a Granny charger, but puts out 7.4kw same as a wallbox. As opposed to 2.3kw of a granny. Will get it professionally fitted so it's all neat and tidy, and obviously safe! Should be less than half price of a wallbox. So back me motor into the drive, get out, plug in, job done. Coz to be honest I really can't be arsed with all this Wi-Fi/App/Smart meter
Bollox. ???

how is it? I looked at this but noticed the 7kw version didnt have any reviews.

 

[salty]

how is it? I looked at this but noticed the 7kw version didnt have any reviews.

Didn't go for it, in the end. Decided me Granny, was ideal for my needs.

 

[DaveIJ]

I use a granny charger on a new EV rated socket schedule charge when needed for 5 hours have had no issues on the occasions of long trips I use the IONITY chargers. When we upgrade our GLE400 next year I might get a wall box installed. At the moment I don’t need one.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

Having a dedicated circuit ending in a commando socket with a commando plug increases the surface area of the contact points and reduces the heat build up of the smaller contact points of a standard plug/socket arrangement. These could be considered illegal because the commando socket is not shuttered and potentially the live could be accessible to things being poked down the hole. The cover could be padlocked shut when not in use, yer takes yer pick!
Not many have mentioned this.... a few years ago we had a lightning strike on the EDF power lines outside the house , This blew up our , and everyone else's telephone lines in the area and also put enough back surge in the consumer unit to burn that out. Some of the sockets with plugged in appliances also suffered burn damage . This was not a direct strike on our house , but if we had had an EV plugged in on a granny drawing power at around 75% of its capacity then I reckon that the excess surge would have burnt out the plug /socket wiring and perhaps more. Our new installation now has surge protectors with the earth going to ground at the shortest length available .
With storms now being more likely and more powerful maybe this should now be a consideration or addition to everyone's installations especially as the cheap overnight tariffs mean EVs ,washing machines , water heaters are drawing night time energy when you are asleep and unable to physically monitor their usage and sneaky weather patterns creeping up on the unaware.

 

[Tight Git]

If a commando socket is needed then an interlocking one such as attached would be sensible. But by the time you've paid an electrician to do all the necessary safety requirements you might as well get a 'proper' EVSE installed.

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1939528-32a-2p-e-240v-interlocked-switch-socket-ip44

 

[mikgle]

Having a dedicated circuit ending in a commando socket with a commando plug increases the surface area of the contact points and reduces the heat build up of the smaller contact points of a standard plug/socket arrangement. These could be considered illegal because the commando socket is not shuttered and potentially the live could be accessible to things being poked down the hole. The cover could be padlocked shut when not in use, yer takes yer pick!
Not many have mentioned this.... a few years ago we had a lightning strike on the EDF power lines outside the house , This blew up our , and everyone else's telephone lines in the area and also put enough back surge in the consumer unit to burn that out. Some of the sockets with plugged in appliances also suffered burn damage . This was not a direct strike on our house , but if we had had an EV plugged in on a granny drawing power at around 75% of its capacity then I reckon that the excess surge would have burnt out the plug /socket wiring and perhaps more. Our new installation now has surge protectors with the earth going to ground at the shortest length available .
With storms now being more likely and more powerful maybe this should now be a consideration or addition to everyone's installations especially as the cheap overnight tariffs mean EVs ,washing machines , water heaters are drawing night time energy when you are asleep and unable to physically monitor their usage and sneaky weather patterns creeping up on the unaware.

Yes surge protection device definitely a good idea, on the whole installation, they not too dear.. it may/may not be enough for a direct strike but definitely will help any surge in the power lines. The Commando sockets aren't illegal, they're used in caravan hookups up and down the country, just ensure its protected by a 30mA rcd, preferably type A.

 

[mikgle]

If a commando socket is needed then an interlocking one such as attached would be sensible. But by the time you've paid an electrician to do all the necessary safety requirements you might as well get a 'proper' EVSE installed.

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1939528-32a-2p-e-240v-interlocked-switch-socket-ip44

Yes an interlocked isolator switch a good idea, unless its easy to switch the circuit off at the fusebox. You can get them cheaper than the one shown. I use a 16A one regularly for our 2nd ev, from 3rd Rock Energy. They have variable power input options from 6A to the maximum and also a delay start option.

 

[mikgle]

Yes an interlocked isolator switch a good idea, unless its easy to switch the circuit off at the fusebox. You can get them cheaper than the one shown. I use a 16A one regularly for our 2nd ev, from 3rd Rock Energy. They have variable power input options from 6A to the maximum and also a delay start option.

I went for a 10M lead too, another option not often offered with standard ev chargepoints.

 

[Panther]

The MG4 manual refers to the granny charger as the "emergency home charging kit".

on the handover video from the MG website they call it the 'occasional use charger'

 

[mikgle]

on the handover video from the MG website they call it the 'occasional use charger'

I only occasionally use it, about once a week.. the Commando socket type would seem a good compromise to me, unless you want to tap into intelligent tariffs like OIGo. I am a bit spoilt really as we have a zappi, an old Rolec 7kW charger, a 16A commando socket, a 13A ev socket and a standard external socket

 

[mikgle]

I only occasionally use it, about once a week.. the Commando socket type would seem a good compromise to me, unless you want to tap into intelligent tariffs like OIGo. I am a bit spoilt really as we have a zappi, an old Rolec 7kW charger, a 16A commando socket, a 13A ev socket and a standard external socket

But I did fit them all myself, as im qualified..